What If... God Didn't Exist?

Fair enough, I can except that.

But then again you have stated your belief a number of times;surely only once is needed...

 

haha yeah but then i realized

i could care less

this is just a forum

im sure if you wanted to extend your belief youd read/look up evolution, am i right?

 

its stupid how religion is tied to evolution imo

 

no what i thought was funny is when we start to prove our point, then someone suggested god caused evolution....................lmao theyll always find a loophole i guess

 

Indeed you are ^_^

Not much of a loophole actually as it doesn't fit with any model of God :lol:

 

Love your Hiro sig Chakka!

I think that in modern times people have lost there dependency on religion. There are so much modern arguments for against the existence of God (which we all know is to be true, because 'God' was a way of understanding the universe and humans existence) - even modern theologians use archaic arguments for the existence of God, that is one downfall of religion in modern times in the western world (its just as strong in the east showing the growth of eastern religion and society since it was asleep during much of the dark ages and modern era and the eventual downfall of western society unless *wink* *wink* another war happens and the west shows its dominance over the world but then it would have to face its nemesis Russia which is currently leaning to the east).

Modern hippie theories have come up like the 'Secret' which is basically ripped from this guys book about positive thinking, adding mystery which everyone loves and mixing it all together to develop something without a god like a pseudo-religion of some sort.

 

Well i dont follow God because of hell. I follow HIm because He created me and the whole universe. He deserves to be worshipped. He takes care of me and the world. He has promised everlasting life (which is what most of the human world wants) God does let the devil trick people and cause chaos but its because people follow the tricks. And God does put a boundary on where the devil goes. Humans are naturally evil so we're going to go for evil. Its like a ------roach. When you put light on them they scurry away because they dont want the light. Same with us. Bring light on us and we run away. Why? well idk cuz im not running.

I dont understand why people try to prove a point with evolution because it means that you were an accident. Why would you want to be an accident of nature?

And i do not run away from books or something that talk about evolution. At my Christian school we discuss it as a unit in science class and Bible class. We have no problem discussing it and learning about it. Not all people stick their head in the sand and dont look too see whats with other religions. I have learned about hindu,islam,buddhist etc. about 5 of emm cuz im still only in grade 9.

The thing about the chick being 100 thousand or w/e it was years old. What did they use to date that? the dating technology is not very good. Once scientists*or whoever does it i forget * tested 2 pieces of rock from the exact same volcano eruption which had happened 20 years ago from when they tested it. THey knew that, they were just testing there dating thingy. Well they tested the rocks and one came out being couple thousand years old and the other 10 thousand or 2 million. something like that they were far off from each other though they were from the exact same volcano. And the dates were wacked. Because the eruptioin had happened 20 years ago. -----with this my point is the dating of objects is scarcely true.


Id bring in evidence and go into detail about lots of things but over the internet its hard to discuss and id need to know alot more because its true i dont know everything about evolution but i know that alot of the main things are wrong and Christianity is true.

--k i gotta get to school now but id just like to ask for ppl not to mock each other here. Please can we talk without swearing at each other or calling each other ignorant. It just builds anger.

 

Im atheist.

I dislike religion in the deepest of honesty.

Man was born, man lived and man prospered. Then man sinned, they created religion, and from this original sin all sins were born. This is pandoras box.

If u quit worrying about life after death, and fantasising on a non existent deity in the hope of enjoying ur afterlife then u will have a much more fun and fullfilling here and now life.

Replace 'God' with your own concience. Live by your concience, and take responsibility for your own life, and actions. If you can wake up in the morning and know u have nothing to fix from the day before, then ur getting somewhere.




God and religion is a cowards way out of life. Take responsibility and live your own damm lives. The church is nothing more than the greatest con organisation in history and your faith is blind and demeans u.

The fact that the church is richer than all the countries of the world alone is more enough than proof for any clear headed individual that this nonsense is sus.


*been to rome and walked the vatican city.
*been medically dead for 5mins.
*been through and seen ---- that would make ur eyelids curl shut.

Merged Post:

Exactly, all you have are models, ideas, theories, blind belief, faith, and preached 'fact'. Yet there is scientific evidence based on the molecular rate of decomposition of carbon to prove the age of the world, and anything on it.

The fact is the rate of decomposition of a molecule of carbon is a given. That through mathematical calculation of the current state of decomposition of the carbon in an object and the constant rate (fact) shows the age of the object. This is how carbon dating works.

And why is it so offensive for evangelists to consider themselves animals? We are. We swarm and nest. We feed, and take dumps like everything else. We are of the same basic structure as every other animal on this world. Flesh and blood made of carbon based substances.

Now i personally think theres more to life than meets the mortal eye. And i think science will be able to explain it someday too.
Consider that the human eye can only register a fraction of the light spectrum of colours. So who is to say that ghosts, angels, spirits, and demons dont exist? But are simply on another wavelength to us? But a god thats in all of us and everything that farted the world out in 7 days? No.

 

Of course all we have are models, but then that's all science works off too. You have the model of evolution, the model of the Big Bang, the model of quantum behaviour.

As for carbon dating I was once like you, believing carbon dating as the ultimate evidence for evolution, impossible to look past and ignore. Before I found out it was all rubbish :lol:

Carbon dating uses the isotope Carbon-14 and, as you said, the rate at which it decays. Like normal ol' Carbon-12, C-14 creates CO2 in our atmosphere and thus enters all living creatures (plants/animals) after plants have taken it in for use in photosynthesis and when animals eat plants (or just plain breath it in). Because the rate of creation of C-14 seems to be constant we expect there to be the same ratio of C-12/C-14 in our bodies as there is in the environment, something I believe has been proven. It also means that, although C-14 naturally decays, our bodies are kepy "topped up" whilst we live; yet when we die this process ends and C-14 begins to be lost, skewing the ratio of C-12 (which doesn't decay) to C-14.

That brings up the first falsity of carbon dating that I have been taught on school; that rocks can be c-dated. They can't. Simple and true.

The decay of C-14 happens, as stated, at a particular rate which we have deduced through mathematical tests, giving a half-life of around 5700 years. This means it takes that long for HALF the C-14 in anything to decay. Thus, at around 50,000 years all C-14 will have gone and C-dating can no longer take place. Hence the second falsity, that c-dating is used with fossils and creates the "billions of years" timeline. It doesn't because it can't.

And then there are the problems. Plants react differently to C-14, many "shunning" it, and so often have lower levels than could be expected as the environmental norm. This means all plants are recorded as older then they are. We can now use C-13 in plants to help estimate how much they reject C-14 but the method is difficult and frequent anomalies in experiments mean it is by no means accurate...yet. Also, to correctly use c-dating we need to know how much C-14 there is in the atmosphere at the time of death, otherwise the carbon ratio means nothing. Of course atmospheric monitoring has only really occurred since the 1900's, and only started looking at C-14 around 1950. We know for definite, for instance, that there was far less C-14 in comparison to C-12 in the atmosphere during the Industrial Revolution, so the ratio is abnormally low compared to today, and during A-bomb testing it was abnormally high.
Some methods can be used, if we are lucky enough to find reliable substances, to deduce the ratio of a timeline (seeds in burial chambers are good for instance, as we can roughly say when those seeds were buried and find the ratio from them, working backwards using half life) but even archaeologists largely shun the use of c-dating beyond about 1000 years ago. Outside of recorded history it is impossible.

There are many more aspects that effect the ratio: solar flares, levels of ozone, strength and positioning of the magnetic field, even weather conditions.

As others have said, the dates given by c-dating in the likes of musk ox and woolly mammoth ice fossils are wildly erratic, dating front limbs thousands of years older then back limbs which is of course ridiculous.

As for the evangelist aspect I cannot speak; personally I believe the human race should be properly re-classified into many sub-species but there you go. (and that is NOT me being racist, there is no species of "human" just as there is no species of "elephant" but rather three of four sub species of the same genus).

Your last statement is certainly interesting. I've often wondered on the idea of the "goblin universe" existing out of eyesight; but surely all our infra red cameras, micro wave using technology, sonar, x-rays etc. would have captured something by now...

 

now here is good old forum debate, none of that mindless bull crap that has been clutting up the last 33 or so pages. it is very interesting that you brought the topic of alternate universes. I believe like many recent scientists that alternative universes do indeed esixst. i talked about it in my first post here.

scientists have now made a theory that the force of gravity is indeed leaking into this universe due to the relatonship of our universe with another closely distanced universe near us. it certainly makes sense that gravity is such a lower force than electromagnetism and strong and weak nuclear forces.

 

Lol.
Carbon dating's only acurate to around 60,000 years.

REad up on radiometric dating, carbon dating isn't the only thing we use.

 

Abstract:

i was always schooled that carbon dating was used for all dating procedures. it now makes sense because radioactive isotopes have a more tremendous half life time than the alkaline elements.

 

Of course it isn't, and I know about other radiometric methods too. Most use parent-daughter cell ratios, so things like potassium-40 to argon-40 etc. And yes it is much easier to find the ratios, very accurate in fact, but to do so we must assume a number of factors, primarily that the starting conditions can be judged (ratio already present), that the rate has been constant (some mathematical models and studies have shown rates of decay can be slowed/sped up) and that there has been no parent/daughter cells introduced or lost since.
And of course even radiometric methods like K-Ar dating are wildly inaccurate; a study of lava flows from Mount Nguaruhoe (sp?) in New Zealand known to have occurred within the last 60 years all dated at over 2 million years old (one even 3.7 million years). The inaccuracy has been put down to excess argon in the mantle that had been locked into the rock, but if this is true most rocks dated in this means would also have this excess argon and so the results are totally wrong.

All I'm saying is that there are currently no, regularly used dating methods that offer any conclusive evidence...

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Sorry just saw this :lol: I've never heard of this "leaking gravity" theory but it does sound interesting. Although it also sounds like a scape-goat for sciences inability to answer the question "what is gravity?" After all if it is from outside of this universe then we, as beings of this universe, have no way of really assessing its nature. But I suppose thats just the scepticism in me talking :lol:

As for the Goblin Universe I mentioned this is actually an old theory that has stuck with me for some time, literally ascribing the existance of most paranormal or crypto-zoological (and many divine) beings/phenomena to an overlapping of two universes. The one is totally aware of the other, which is blissfully unaware except where a breach is made in the weakening walls between them. We, of course, are the unaware one. However I've just been trying to find more information on this and it seems to have been wiped off the face of the earth. I remember it being featured, albeit briefly, on all paranormal sites but now can't find it on any, and Wiki has no mention (very oddly...). Hmm...maybe a conspiracy :lol:

 

well we dont feel in wavelengths.. there isnt much of a spectrum of touch. so id say thats to say ghosts, angels, spirits, and demons dont exist

 

That is only if you limit life to being like we find it on this planet. It is easily possible that beings could exist without a body as we would understand it. Still it does seem quite unlikely

Yet if you put it in context of a multiverse it isn't that far-fetched...not the gas-beings, but the idea of invisible demons etc.