Alright, this might seem like a rant, well because I am pissed off. I am a junior in a public high school in Northern Virginia of the USA, and my teachers do not see the values of seperation of church and state. Seperation of church and state is basically a law that makes it deliberatly clear that it is illegal to base something upon a religion in a public office. So, every day I go to school. I have fourth period English class, meaning I only have English on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays. I am not christian. I am athiest. I do not hate christianity, I just do not share the same values and beliefs as those who do belong to that certain religious cult. So, I go to the class, and sit down. We're watching a movie while taking notes on "Billy Budd" by Herman Melville. So, we finish the movie, and we have to describe who each character resembles symbolically. Starting off, answer number one was Satan. Number two was Moses. Number three was Ezekiel. Number four was Jesus. Number five was God. All five answers are based upon the christian belief. I got all five wrong since I would not assume that my teacher, Mrs. X. would not grade a paper based upon her own beliefs. I was wrong. I got back my paper and recieved a 0%. An F. Immedietly after we have been returned our papers, she goes to the black board and writs down the Seven Deadly Sins and says that everyone needs to know this for their life. I stood up and asked her why would she ignore the line of church and state, there were Budhists, Islamics, Jews, Athiests, and Hindus as well in my class room who all also recieved F's for not being part of the christian faith. She responded to me saying that we need to have some kind of real faith, not including budhism, islam, judiasm, athiesm etc... because that's what is right. I was silenced. I could not speak in anger. I knew if I was to say something that I would have surely been expelled, so I walked out of the class room. Now, if I were to tell the principal or someone of higher authority than her, she would not care at all, since she is retiring as it is. I am just in so much anger today that I don't know what to say/do. ARRRRRRGH That's not the worst part. I was sent an email by someone I had sent this to before posting here, and this is what I recieved... What is happening to our America? T_T
Well luckily I live i Australia On the topic, I think that's really harsh to non-christians, that was an English class, not scripture after all. People should believe what they want, you can be whatever you like. Btw, is there actually a law in the white house or whatever talking about seperation of chruch and state?
oh i know i told everyone i wouldnt show up in these threads, but i couldnt help myself this time. first off: in that situation, the fact the teacher failed you, in a public school, on questions like that, is honestly wrong. im not questioning/debating that. but....seperation of state is not basicly a law, and makes nothing illegal... in the history of the united states, it has never been law. thomas jefferson mentioned the phrase in a letter which quoted the 1st amendment, and madison also mentioned the phrase in a letter, but it is not in the constitution/any law. there IS a passage, more or less stating the doctrine of separation of church and state in the declaration of independance, but that holds no real meaning next to the law. now since niether the school nor the federal government ( which does not control the school, it cant ) is actually establishing an enforcement of a religion...yer pretty much hosed. im not bein mean, just clearnin somthin up. and on the "religious cult" line: thats a tad bit of an oxymoron. ya see, a cult is an unorthodox branch of a religion that deviates far enough to be separated from that religion. now since christianity has been around for 2000 years and stayed more or less similar to itself the whole time...its a religion, not a cult, by definition.
there is no seperation of church and state.... how many senators, congressman, and pres base there campains on thier religious or "moral" backround... what your teacher did is wrong... no one should ever try to force there beliefs on you. i will say this tho, if you got together all those non-christians in your class who would have been (or were) and you could easily have a strong case (and it would be alot easier for 5+ people to fund a lawsuit then you yourself)
Like .Oasis said, I'd group up with those other non-Christian students and sue her together, you shouldn't let her get away with it.
Yay, time for me to get into a worthwhile debate... First of all, I applaud you for wording your argument so clear. So many times I see topics like this brought up, and the only things people care to post is, this is f'ed up, here's why, I'm right, and you're wrong type thing. That's why I stay away from Gneral Discussion most of the time, because I do not feel like getting into arguments with 13 year old kids who have not experienced this little thing called life in a light that would allow them to see more than their close minded view... Now off to my rant... First off, as neither an aetheist, nor a devout Christian, I believe that I will be able to shed a different perspective on this whole thing. I grew up in a VERY overbearing, "Holier-than-thou" household, so I can see things from both sides. Let me start off by saying, that what your teacher is doing is wrong. I don't have a degree in law or ethics, but I do have a degree from a very prestigious school, and have taken some very good courses regarding this very issue. The separation of church and state is just that. A separation. Because of the diversity of cultures, religions, ethnicities, ect., we as a people must learn to accomodate ALL walks of life, not just those we choose to accomodate. I can understand your English instructor wanting to pass down values that were instilled in her. The person who stated about the passage in the Declaration of Independence regarding the separation of church and state must be living in their own little world. What do you think laws are based on? Laws are based on the documents that helped found this country. The very foundation of the court system is grounded on documents like the Declaration of Independece, the Constituion, etc. These items hold up in court as well as any other legal jargon. If they didn't, there wouldn't be people complaining that their constitutional rights were violated. Anyways, regarding the issue at hand. Unfortunately, there isn't a whole hell of a lot you can do. It doesn't matter if you pursued the case by yourself, or had 1,000 other people behind you. Unless it is in black and white or there is a recording stating why this particular teacher has failed you on this assignment, you will only get laughed at. The steps I would take? First, set up a meeting with your Principal/Vice Principal. Express your views to them and explain to them the situation in the classroom. If that doesn't get you anywhere, take it to the next level. Get a hold of the school's superintendent and bring it up with him/her. I live in Virginia myself, and things are a little different here considering we are not exactly what most would define as a "state". As a matter of fact, nowhere in our name is it even mentioned we're a state... Reason being? We're a commonwealth. (Now watch me get flamed by a bunch of kids who have no idea what they're talking about). If you really wanted to pursue these things, I would first read the following items as in depth as you can possibly go. These documents outline the very definition of the phrase "Separation of church and state" The First Amenment Establishment and Free Exercise Clause Now, I'm not saying that there are no lawyers out there that won't represent this. As a matter of fact, I know of a couple off the top of my head that would. However, what they will tell you is that you will need more proof. You can't just sue based off of one circumstance. From now on, document everytime this happens. As a matter of fact, when you do document it, have your friends sign and print their names as witnesses. It will help in the long run. I apologize for my thoughts being completely random. I have yet to take my medication, so I'm just typing what comes to my head. Hopefully I have made some decent points though. Maybe once I take my meds, I'll come back through this and edit it...lol.
seperation of church and state is found in no law in the united states. it is included in a letter that jeferson wrote though 1st amendment that effectively means that there can be no state religion. It also means that if someone wanted to pray at a public school, they could. the inclusionary clause would carry this over to state and local governments as well.
You guys are aware that the phrase, "Seperation of church and state." is NO where in the constitution, nor any important documents. The only place it is found is in a letter from Thomas Jefferson to a church in the south. (I don't remember the state, but I think it's Alabama) So sueing, would be a, rather silly thing to do unless the jury and judge are as niave as most Americans. Merged Post: And someone beat me to it, well done, mate.
i wrote a letter about how I should be made supreme ruler of the planet... any chance I can get thousands of proletarians to repeat it until such propaganda becomes policy?
that is just wrong she has no right to say that, n base it only on her belief i think you should make a complain about this.At least try to do something coz everyone jus gets away with things like that.
We allow doctors to openly refuse to treat gay patients. We allow pharmacists to decide what prescriptions they fill, and whom they fill them for purely on their personal "moral" basis. And why shouldn't they be aloud to treat who they want? Did they not pay for their college? They work, and can choose who they work on, unless they are military. You're saying they shouldn't have to right to choose who they treat? You're wanting to take their rights away, to give others more rights? That isn't fair, nor should it be done.
lol, I haven't been in in around 6 months, and I'm glad to see the same retarded arguments are still in the general discussion forum
Well, you have to give the teacher props for teaching something like that, seeing as she could very well be fired for that. However, I'll start out by stating that I too have nothing against Christianity. I agree with separation of church and state. When you go to English class, religion should not be on the agenda. However, were there religious themes in the book/movie? What would have provoked her to do this? If it was just random and she was being a 'womens bible study' evangelist, that's kind of retarded in my opinion.
