Quick Question For All Members...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Shaggy, Dec 2, 2008.

  1. .ZERO

    .ZERO Nig┬Łga wit a PSD

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    And what Have I said to provoke this remark?


    On topic, xen is right, its better to have a dedicated forum for flaming to stop it leaking out onto other threads (Something draxxus hasn't yet grasped the concept of) Would be better in my opinion to not remove it but to move it more out of the way, probably at the bottom of the board, which brings me onto another point. If the site is about graphics why have the graphics sections below the discussion? Ideal layout imo would be:

    > Announcements & Suggestions
    > Graphics
    > Renders
    > GR Community
    > The Marketplace
    > Competitions
    > Crews
    > Paid Subscriptions
     
  2. dementia

    dementia Well-Known Member

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    The thing with popular vote is that it largely creates a peronal preference barrier of sorts. A lot of people wnat things implemented so they can take the advantage of it, and most of the things we talk about in staff could be mixed around and thrown around and provided with loopholes, which is something we try not to allow.

    Some things, when we feel the decision should be up the the public, we give popular vote a say (for instance, the skin).

    However, on most things, members become far too sneaky and too self-absorbed in getting a specific thing brought on (think: steam accounts).

    People like to think this isn't a democracy, when it basically is. There isn't a single large decision that isn't pressed through the staff, and the staff are people whom our current staff, and sometimes our active members have an input on. The sectionals and globals are kind of the congress / senate, where as the admins are the presidential candidates / supreme court justice type things. When it comes to a pressing matter that the staff feels they can't handle on their own, or that they should not decide on behalf of the site, then it becomes a national vote. This is comparable to politics such as gay marriage laws, religious laws, etc. things that are of personal choice and not forced by the government.
    [/b][/quote]
    yes, this will indeed be the case when you got a vote system. but it's good to know how you guys handle the things and I think you're doing good, but you might want to consider starting fresh again, I mean unbanning all people that have been banned. What I'm trying to say is: keep the all the members you have and unban the one's that got banned I'm pretty sure they have learned their lessen, and if not you can ban them Again, I am pretty sure there will be a few people coming back (Atleast if you send them an E-mail).
    The problem is that you guys have banned most of the good artists and most of the people go to A place where they can learn from the "good"artists. I am not saying that there aren't any good artists here but there used to be a lot more of them a few years ago...
    [/b][/quote]
    I don't think you are aware of the sheer amount of people we have banned.

    Because of how the ACP is setup, I can't give you an accurate number, however I can say that when I middle click my mouse and get the arrow fast page scroller action going on, and i start at the top and put my cursor to the very bottom for maximum speed (multiple pages a second) on a 1280x1024 monitor it takes 11 full mississippi seconds to hit the bottom. To compare, I go from the top of the GR main page to the bottom in under a second.

    Are you prepared to let back that many spammers, hackers, rippers, scammers, ban evaders, repeat offenders, etc. ?

    Most of the 'good artists' (lol sigs) are banned because they are scammers, rippers, and ban evaders. Do you have ANY clue how big their egos are? You ban them, and they think they are good enough to just proxy and walk back in and say, 'hi, i was just banned, but im better than this site, so i dont care and made a new account'.
     
  3. BabyLeo

    BabyLeo Well-Known Member

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    This is the exact case I was trying to make. Thanks Dem.


    Also, just as an afterthought. A lot of them weren't really that great. The people who are really great care more about designing art then they care about causing problems to get themselves banned.
     
  4. Ini

    Ini Well-Known Member

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    Because this place hasn't really got a community. It's got a section where flaming and conflict between members is encouraged fgs.

    Some people seem to be above the law, other sites, it's break a rule, serve punishment, regardless of your popularity.

    GR will almost never be able to get over the "noob site image" Someone asks you a good site for a beginner sig designer - GR is the prime candidate.
     
  5. Sniper001

    Sniper001 Legen-wait for it-dary!

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    Somebody who knows what he's talking about - I miss the flooded marketplace as well.

    yes, this will indeed be the case when you got a vote system. but it's good to know how you guys handle the things and I think you're doing good, but you might want to consider starting fresh again, I mean unbanning all people that have been banned. What I'm trying to say is: keep the all the members you have and unban the one's that got banned I'm pretty sure they have learned their lessen, and if not you can ban them Again, I am pretty sure there will be a few people coming back (Atleast if you send them an E-mail).
    The problem is that you guys have banned most of the good artists and most of the people go to A place where they can learn from the "good"artists. I am not saying that there aren't any good artists here but there used to be a lot more of them a few years ago...
    [/b][/quote]
    I don't think you are aware of the sheer amount of people we have banned.

    Because of how the ACP is setup, I can't give you an accurate number, however I can say that when I middle click my mouse and get the arrow fast page scroller action going on, and i start at the top and put my cursor to the very bottom for maximum speed (multiple pages a second) on a 1280x1024 monitor it takes 11 full mississippi seconds to hit the bottom. To compare, I go from the top of the GR main page to the bottom in under a second.

    Are you prepared to let back that many spammers, hackers, rippers, scammers, ban evaders, repeat offenders, etc. ?

    Most of the 'good artists' (lol sigs) are banned because they are scammers, rippers, and ban evaders. Do you have ANY clue how big their egos are? You ban them, and they think they are good enough to just proxy and walk back in and say, 'hi, i was just banned, but im better than this site, so i dont care and made a new account'.
    [/b][/quote]
    +1. Letting back banned members is not a solution. It'll just cause havoc on the forum. I mean, if members want to get unbanned personally, they can always PM an admin and get their case reviewed (based on my understanding.)

    However (and I know I am going to be critized for this), it was some of the (banned) members that brought the life into this forum. Gac, for example, sold countless steam accounts on this forum. (And sure, they were illegal, but let's face it, it gave the "credit" a value. It perpetuated people to purchase credits, hence the successful marketplace.) This sheer case as well as many others resulted in the downfall of the marketplace. I strongly feel the marketplace and the "credit system" is what makes GR what it is, or at least that's what was appealing to me when I first joined, not the Flame forum or any other things. The marketplace activity is what brought the life and the "peak" into Gamerenders.
    Sure, there were many artists who had crazy egos and sold their work for crazy high amounts, but doesn't anybody miss when the marketplace used to be flooded with requests? Back to my example with Gac, once people realized their credits didn't have much value or use to them, they began to sell them. Based on the concept of supply and demand, once tons of people wanted to sell their credits at the same point in time, it resulted in the decline of the GR credit - nobody wanted to purchase it anymore. Like a domino effect, once this happened, those "ego" artists left - they had no reason to stay here. Sure, they could sell their art for credits, but they wouldn't be able to sell those credits for $US. And let's face it, many of them did come on here for make money - I can think of already 4-5 artists that did this, and I don't have anything against it at all.

    So what can you do about it now? Well, give it time. You already allowed steam accounts/RS accounts to be sold on this site. It's going to take a while for people to want to actually want to sell these items because at the moment, nobody wants to carry credits on their account (in view of the fact that it's practically impossible to sell.) Hopefully, as time progresses, the demand for the credit will pick up. Shaggy, you mentioned that you were going to purchase some credits. Honestly, the best way to make the credit reach back to its original value is to remove some credits from the system. Now, this is just an idea, I haven't even thought it through... but how about you set up a system where any member can sell their credits to an administrator at a cheaper rate than the mandatory required rate. (Shaggy, this way you fulfill your statement to purchase credits, eliminate more credits than you would by purchasing them with the normal rate, and once you obtain these credits, you eliminate them for the system instead of flooding them back to the system like a normal member would do by purchasing these credits.) This allows administrators to remove credits fairly (since you are allowing members to make a choice to sell their credits at a cheaper rate) and cheaply/efficiently (since you are removing more credits with the same amount of money). The desperate members will be able to sell their credits, and soon, only a few members will carry credits. Once the supply of credits decreases, demand will go up. Once demand goes up, the artists (whos sold work that encouraged members to spend their credits) + the RS/steam sellers will come back, and the marketplace will be what it once was (hypothetically). Comments anybody? I'm open to criticism about this - it's an open forum, so I'd love to hear other ideas as well.

    Sad but true, very unfortunate.. I mean, I understand the reason why the "Last Word" was implimented - which was to keep "hate" outside the other forums. But staff, let me ask you a question, has this worked? Honestly, I doubt it. (But please, correct me if I am wrong.)
    If you want GR to return back to its original community, remove the section which only perpetuates members to conflict with each other, and in turn, spread hate.
     
  6. dylan5102

    dylan5102 Senior Member

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    yes, this will indeed be the case when you got a vote system. but it's good to know how you guys handle the things and I think you're doing good, but you might want to consider starting fresh again, I mean unbanning all people that have been banned. What I'm trying to say is: keep the all the members you have and unban the one's that got banned I'm pretty sure they have learned their lessen, and if not you can ban them Again, I am pretty sure there will be a few people coming back (Atleast if you send them an E-mail).
    The problem is that you guys have banned most of the good artists and most of the people go to A place where they can learn from the "good"artists. I am not saying that there aren't any good artists here but there used to be a lot more of them a few years ago...
    [/b][/quote]
    I don't think you are aware of the sheer amount of people we have banned.

    Because of how the ACP is setup, I can't give you an accurate number, however I can say that when I middle click my mouse and get the arrow fast page scroller action going on, and i start at the top and put my cursor to the very bottom for maximum speed (multiple pages a second) on a 1280x1024 monitor it takes 11 full mississippi seconds to hit the bottom. To compare, I go from the top of the GR main page to the bottom in under a second.

    Are you prepared to let back that many spammers, hackers, rippers, scammers, ban evaders, repeat offenders, etc. ?

    Most of the 'good artists' (lol sigs) are banned because they are scammers, rippers, and ban evaders. Do you have ANY clue how big their egos are? You ban them, and they think they are good enough to just proxy and walk back in and say, 'hi, i was just banned, but im better than this site, so i dont care and made a new account'.
    [/b][/quote]
    I do agree with you but from who do these "newbs" have to learn? we can only give them rescources some C&C and some Decent tutorials (and most likely you even have to pay for the good ones) so these people need to start posting and posting to earn their credits to buy their first decent tutorial (wich a lot of people aren't waiting for) there are only a few people good enough to give some good tutorials out for free...
    so the main question is how do I get people to join this community without them coming only for the rescources on/or leaving the next day?
    the answer is; by having a good stable community, A lot of friendly and active people (not only in spam heaven) and enough (good) rescources for the newcomers
     
  7. dementia

    dementia Well-Known Member

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    You know, the funny thing about the whole, 'above the law' thing, is that every single person who you would think is 'above the law' has been warned and/or suspended multiple times, myself included.
     
  8. Broken

    Broken Well-Known Member

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    There's a lot of tutorials still being given out for free, and offer a cred reward to people who's tutorials, when posted free on the site, make it onto sites such as good-tutorials and pixel2life. There's -plenty- of good artists here, we've got people on GR who get DDs on DA, people who sell their work to clients.
     
  9. Mortified Penguin

    Mortified Penguin Senior Member

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    It's simple...we have far too many aholes. I mean sure, there are some new people that deserve it (sometimes) but look at GXFR and then compare it to here...
     
  10. Zekiel

    Zekiel Well-Known Member

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    .. Whats PR?
     
  11. Broken

    Broken Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, that's a valid comparison.

    GR : We have 121,560 registered members

    GXFR : We have 160 registered members
     
  12. kovan

    kovan Senior Member

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    people who are saying that spam heaven & last word is VERY active is true
    but at the same time, it is bad for the forum .. let me explain

    let's say someone is involved in the community .. making tuts, renders, being in marketplace alot, CnC alot .. etc ..etc
    goes into the spam heaven for 1 time to see how it is ... that person will stay there for to long because he is enjoying all of the jokes and funny things

    and he will be there more and that way he will start to make less tuts,renders,CnC ..etc ..etc
    now put that on a large scale ... that's where you see it goes wrong


    and that's why i'm pretty happy to see that spamheaven & last word going away
    now people will say alot of people will leave because of that

    but think of all the people joining back into the community because of that


    just face it, spamheaven is one of the big reason why GR "died" ..
     
  13. .//XeN-

    .//XeN- Well-Known Member

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    that logic only works if you assume the members of GR only go on GR and avoid any other websites.
     
  14. Broken

    Broken Well-Known Member

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    Just not true.
    Not only are the vast majority of Spam Heaven go-ers, not interested (Or ever were) interested in giving resources, ala, even them enjoying the community (God forbid) wouldn't weak then influx of resources. But GR's 'Steady' period of growing in activeness started before Spam Heaven and Spam Heaven is not the issue. How on earth can a board be blamed for the inactivity of a site? It makes absolutley no logical sense (Removing it, bad idea). If people don't like that specific board, they can stay out of it ; you don't not go on a website just because you dislike an easily avoidable part of it.
     
  15. Shaggy

    Shaggy Administrator Staff Member

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    The ideas months ago where just our first concpet of ideas. Things have changed and we are wanting a setup now to be a high newbie and professional site. With the new ideas/mods coming in, we hope that these will be great for newbies and also show that there are severl professional users here.
     

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