Stop with all the multiple lines between your paragraphs, its annoying to read. Church and school do NOT mix. If you want your kids to grow up in a religious manner, send them to a private religious school, or you can get out of the nation founded on the various cultures of the world and being understanding of such as a FREE NATION, where one is FREE to believe however they wish. The laws have been established to seperate religion from school (or more accurately church and state), its been around for quite some time and has been the cause of numerous law suits all of which have been shoved back into every religious person's face. The same goes for the pledge 'one nation, under God' the capitalization was an error, and on top of that, it didn't respect the various cultures and religions which exist throughout the nation. People need to get over it. Religious debates are the starts of many wars, and millions of times more in deaths, stupid things like this are what get people killed in the crossfire. Personally, the only schools I have heard teaching anything other than evolution (outside of college, mind you) is a school that is both private, and designed to be taught in such a manner. The public school system is required, by law, to separate religion and school. The same exact way businesses are required to, and politics. Colleges are a bit more liberal, and most of them are actually private, or fall under private laws. Teachers in colleges are allowed to teach as they see fit to their students, and students have a direct choice on which classes they take. Religious nuts are going to be raising hell trying to force their beliefs on others, which is exactly what you agreed to in another topic as being *wrong*, and exactly what is going on here. If someone *wants* to accept the background of Christmas, they seek it out, that is part of your own religion. If someone wants to believe in the father, the son, and the holy spirit, they have to choose to seek him out. Religious people are not the prophets of god intended to spread the message around to those who do not wish to hear it, THAT is YOUR scripture, and this is EXACTLY what these people are doing. You do not force them into something they choose not to hear, that isn't being christian, its not even being one of many religions. The people who choose to not accept YOUR god as their personal savior do not deserve to be persecuted and force fed YOUR beliefs because YOU believe they are correct. We are law abiding citizens, YOU are not. Go build up your own nation based purely on Christian beliefs if you want everyone there to respect your personal beliefs.
Basically what I would've said except a little more sugarcoated? PS I find it funny that their complaining about this at all. The least they could do is actually celebrate Christmas on Jesus' birthday.
I'm not talking church and school. I'm talking someone giving the reasons Christmas is there. Including why Saint Nick is involved, as well as that it's a celebration of the birth of Jesus. There's a difference between bringing up the historical reasons for something, and the religious ones. Jesus being born is a fact, and therefore it shouldn't offend anyone that their children know that that's why Christmas is Christmas. They could also mention that Jesus wasn't even born in winter. Are you going to argue that it's wrong to say that? This is still keeping religion separate, while educating children on the holidays related to them. Face it: Christmas is an important part of American culture. And I want my kids to grow up knowing why some celebrate Kwanzaa just as much as I want them to know about Christmas. Frankly, I find that more relevant than Egyptian gods. This isn't even the matter being discussed. What is being discussed is that Christians are being discriminated against in an unfair way. Why not allow nativities? What's so wrong with them? What's so offensive about Christmas music? The schools can use songs for the other holidays, why not Christmas? That is the issue. I personally wouldn't have started a lawsuit about it, but that's me and I can't control someone else's actions. Either way, they're not forcing their beliefs on anyone. It's like if someone were to complain about having independence day banned because immigrants might be offended. Why does everything I say have to result in a direct attack on my person? Frankly, I've never forced my beliefs on you, I've never spoon fed you scripture, I've never said anything to cause you to directly insult me except that I love Jesus. I don't condone forcing beliefs on anyone. Frankly, you should stop forcing your beliefs on me. I don't believe in evolution (for scientific reasons), yet I'm forced to listen to it. The media directly attacks my faith and misquotes scripture. Online I constantly find people trying to force me to see the "greatness" of atheism. I've been called stupid, hypocritical, foolish, ignorant, and quite a few words that I choose not to repeat. None of these accusations were backed up with evidence, they're stupid baseless insults that have no founding. People generalize the entire Christian populace, which includes "christians" with the Christians, and I am one person. I'm not every Christian thrown together, nor should you act like I am. So, tell me, am I truly the one in the wrong here? Is it so bad that I offer you guys the Christian side of it so you're not being fed one-sided crap? Or do you prefer to be led by the media's opinions? How am I not a law abiding citizen? I've never gotten a ticket, I don't pirate, I don't shoplift like 1/11 Americans, I never got in trouble at school. This nation was based on the Christian beliefs, just so you know. The laws were directly based off of Christian morals. If I went and started another country like you say, it would end up just like America in the end. Corrupt and full of fools.
No, I could see reasoning behind helping understand *why* Christmas exists, but how exactly do you bring up Jesus without someone being offended? Whether he was born is up for discussion, its documented enough times but science can't indefinitely prove anything, personally I would prefer not to believe something thats based on a humans say so, which is why I find most religious scriptures to be a load of shit. Jesus is directly connected as being one of the three main entities in a very controversial religion. Why is it controversial in the nation in which it is the most practiced? Because of the amount of times the religion itself has been the culprit of downplaying other cultures and religions in a nation intended to be free. Look at Bush, in his own political speeches he brings religion up as a reason to discriminate against homosexuality. He brought nearly no facts to the table as to why homosexual marriages should be outlawed. This has been a *very* large political debate brought up by religion in the past few years. Christmas is not an important part of American culture because of its religious backbone, its a part of American culture because of the media. There are thousands of cultures throughout the world who know of Christianity who do not practice Christmas. There are even more who know the story of Saint Nick, the reason for modern day American Christmas who do not practice Christmas. How do I know this? Because I used to be a member of a church, and have gone to plenty of nations throughout the world to share mission statements. Yeah, me, one of the most anti-religious people on this website was also one in the same with a person who went around the world helping starving children how to read, write, and practice the scripture, odd how things work out isn't it? Why are whites, blacks, asians, mexicans, and people of every single other world ethnicity discriminated against? Funny how whites are discriminated in a white dominant country just as much as minorities are, eh? Funny how the big dog religion is one of the most discriminated against religions in the nation in which its the most practicied. The fact is, those on top are those targetted most, to simplify that statement, why are Windows machines running Norton antivirus the traditional machine which gets the most viruses? Because it is the most used and hence the most targetted platform. You act as if Christians are the only religion targetted. Do you want to know why? Because you are focusing in on your own little bubble. Liberate your mind a little bit and take a look around. Are you trying to tell me Kwanza isn't discriminated against? How about Hanukkah / Chanukah? If you feel Christianity is any more targetted and thrown around than those two religious holidays, you are mistaken. Let's take Hanukkah / Chanukah as an example. It is a Jewish belief... let's think long and hard now... what did the Jewish religion *ever* get persecuted for? Oh, there was that small thing called The Halocaust, but obviously that must have skipped your mind if you feel Christianity is more of a target than a Jewish belief is. Wanna know another reason why Christianity is put down? Because a majority of lawsutis which have occured in this nation have been because of Christian believers forcing their beliefs on others, much like those in the news reel. When someone complains about you, and your actions, those around you often take the fall for it. People practicing the religion and forcing it on others or using it to back their beliefs in school / work / politics are often prosecuted for their beliefs, because its against the law. This is the most practiced religion in the states, and because of it, it is the one most notorious for causing uproars, and thus the target of the state to make members of said religion not start so many uproars. It's a similar concept with homosexuals. I am all for homosexuals, awesome that they put up with so much crap, but when I see a gay guy screaming at the top of his lungs, 'GAY PRIDE, WOOOOOOO!' I wanna bash his head in. I am proud to be straight, but I am not about to go marching down the street screaming 'straight pride', because its annoying. Christians tend to do the same thing here in the states, butting into other religions, cultures, workplace, politics, etc. business and interferring. I attack you because you are ignorant to other beliefs around you, its abundant in EVERY religious post you make, you believe Christianity is the only way and all other religions and beliefs are out against you. I have stated this tens of times, liberate your mind and experience more than one kind of food before you decide what you like best. You blindly believe, and that is one of the stupidest fucking things I can imagine. This is not me personally attacking you, this is me personally attacking your beliefs. I don't know you as a person, but I know you as a self righteous bible thumper without any true knowledge of other religions, aka you are ignorant. I don't know how obvious this is, but those who actually know me, know that there is 1 thing which I absolutely cannot stand and that is ignorance / stupidity. You display them in your religious posts. Personally, I don't believe jack the media says, I haven't touched TV for anything past the super bowl in nearly the last 3 years (going on 3 this Feb with the Superbowl). I believe in what I have learned through years of learning about different religions on my own free will. It is ignorant for someone to choose to follow a particular belief without first experiencing everything the world has to offer. It's unfortunate to see people who were raised in Christian households and force fed the bible from a young age and brain washed like my family tried to do to me. Its unfortunate when people blindly believe in a faith which is nearly the same as almost every other major religion in the world with a few differences. Wanna know a secret? The things all religions have in common, are the things most people believe through science, its the things that can't be proved via science that make up the basis for a religion. Did Jesus really rise from the dead? Not provable. Did the sea really split and allow thousands of people to run through it? Not provable. Did the seas turn to blood? Not proveable. What has been, for the most part, proven, are things like Noah's Ark, Jesus' birth, eye witness accounts (which are hardly believable after 2,000+ years while being translated and manipulated time and time again). Those are the things present in almost every single major religion, its the things in between though which are the focus of faith in a particular reason, which is why I personally, as well as many people who aren't single sided with a closed mind who actually digest what I say tend to believe. You speak against the media, when the media is the only thing making Christianity and God the main beliefs in this American system. I am the one here speaking for you to liberate your closed minded beliefs and open your mind to the possibility of other things being true. I am the one speaking against being force fed and brain washed by religious 'cults' (which is really what they are once you break them down). Wanna know how you aren't a law abiding citizen, you agree with the protests by the Christian woman present in the article. Would you like to know what that makes you? An accomplice to a crime against a law combining church and state. Wanna know why America changed? Because at the time the founders of the nation came to America, the world was in a different state. It was in a state of warfare. It was in a state of power and corruption, and world domination. Wanna know the true reason why America has evolved where a majority of other nations have not? We have a living document as a basis for our laws. The people who founded our country KNEW that the country would evolve, and that the morals of the past may not be what the future had in store, and they gave the government the ability of adjusting the laws to suit the modern needs of the country. The true basis of America was found on being the 'land of the free' where a person is free to believe however they choose. This is *still* the case, its however THEY CHOOSE. The current nation has CHOSEN to NOT force organized religions and cultures amongst the members of society, but rather leave the choice up to the individual in question and make seeking that religion open.
Sorry man, I don't have the attention span to read that, nor the interest to do so. You don't read something that is blatant bashing while being purely opinionated. Not only that, this is completely off topic. You've misunderstood several things I've said and don't care to even "open your mind" to what I believe and ask yourself why I believe it. And this didn't even start off as me being religious. Do you know me? No. Do not judge who I am and what I believe when you haven't been there for every moment of my life. I do not ignore other religions, but I also don't know many who practice them because almost everyone where I live is atheist or agnostic. The fact is that I'm very interested in the faiths of others, but would rather be able to speak to a believer than read about it (I've also never said they're out to get me). Nor do I blindly believe in Jesus' grace. If you can't understand why it's not blind faith, PM me and we can discuss it privately. This is no longer a subject that should be discussed in public due to the aggressive nature of it and the fact that it's off-topic.
Then you can continue through life remaining what you feel is a beacon of god preaching the word as a self righteous and ignorant individual. That is your choice. But do me and the site the common courtesy of keeping your one sided and closed minded arguments to yourself with religious debates in the future. Also, in the future, I hope you have decency once you engage in an argument / debate to actually finish the debate rather than ignoring the other person like a stubborn, and again ignorant, individual and running back to your own little safe spot. You are the embodiment of what is wrong in todays modern society and religion imo and I hope one day you can see that for yourself.
I did not desire a debate. If I wanted one, I would have asked for one. You began it; I was not obligated to finish it. Besides, it was no longer a debate. A debate does not consist of hatred and opinions. It consists of backed up facts and a clearly stated topic. We had none of those, therefore this was no debate, it was a childish argument that needed to stop. There's a reason that I have ended every single discussion that I've gotten into with you. "Then you can continue through life remaining what you feel is a beacon of god preaching the word as a self righteous and ignorant individual. That is your choice. But do me and the site the common courtesy of keeping your one sided and closed minded arguments to yourself with religious debates in the future." It was no argument. I was summarizing the whole reason this was happening according to the article. Please, reread posts before giving accusations and stop assuming I'm persecuting you or anyone else. I even weakened part of the church's argument at one point. "But do me and the site the common courtesy of keeping your one sided and closed minded arguments" Thank you for that insightful comment. I'd like to ask that no one mentions Bible thumpers or insult me in the future, because that would be closed minded as well. Oh, and no legitimately defending your stance on what's wrong with the church either, because that's closed minded and would offend me. </sarcasm> You seem to be the only one who has truly insulted me on here. The only times anyone else has is when they start backing you. Honestly, I don't think anyone else cares. If you don't want me to post, than ban Christian topics from the sight, otherwise I'm going to show you the biased Christian side in addition to the biased media side. And stop bringing religion up yourself whenever I try and have a decent discussion. I'm officially tired of this topic.
That's why they chose the date. "There's already a celebration there, and there are other festivals around that time too, so we might as well place the symoblic celebration of our saviour's birth there. It makes complete logical sense!" This whole mess is the kind of reason why religion gets a bad rap from the general internet community.
Well, it's bollocks because of the extremists who say "I AM RELIGIOUS. GOD TOLD ME SO." It's the matter of keeping it in your pants.
