Extraction.

Peter, your opinion/arguement is flawed in most aspects.

Rendering does require skill. Thats why you have Legendary Renders such as *Blood* and the forgetton ones such as (I forgot).

Pen Tool:

It requires skill and knowledge. Why?

How to make perfect curves.
How and where to plot points in order to create curves.
Speed of clicking (the more advanced you are, the faster your rendering ability)
Accuaracy. Speed and Accuracy mix though, but you can get people who spend a lot of time and get a bad result (Bad Renderers) and also people who spend little time and get a good result (Good renderers).
It also requires effort, patience and style.

If you think this is flawed, then compare Kazuya RIP to Kazuya REBORN. See the difference between both? RIP is still known, REBORN, forgotten and shant be remembered. My 20 hours that were put into RIP was recognised and appreciation was shown.

The 30 minutes I spent on REBORN was effortless and regonised as being effortless.

All in all, a "true/good" renderer, in my, and most others opinion would be:

Someone who spends time, effort and is accurate when extracting an image. That is whut gets you recognised. You can't call yourself a "Render God" by simply using 1 tool to highlight a major part of the render in order to make it look good.

Polygonal Lasso Tool:

Same as above.

Extraction:

Requires you to know 3 things. Brush, Hit Okay & Duplicate. Takes what? 20 Seconds? Thats not skill, thats not effort, thats not determination, motivation. Its, NOTHING.

I'll put it simple. And I'm going to use myself as an example.

One of my "2nd Class" Pen Tool renders would have more effort put into it than any Extraction Render.

Being a Good renderer requires: Skill, Patience, Accuracy and overall - Effort.

None of which Extraction requires.

And if you still don't believe/disagree with me.

I'll prove you and anyone else wrong in ROTY.

Thats all I'm saying.

 

i am grealty against extraction it is a lame technique that requires no skill at all and is makeing renderer's look a lot better and talented then they actually are.Pen tool requires nothing but talent and skill and lots of hard work where as using extraction ppl are getting rave reviews reputations and even now winning roty competitions.this is begining to be a problem in my opinion when you have a render that has been worked on for sometimes hours and then someone elses come along with some lame ass extraction job and gets all the praise for it is just not on in my opinion.ALL EXTRACTION RENDERS SHOULD BE INSTANTLY DELETED.

 

personally i think the extraction tool sucks not because people will use it but its not as good as everyones making it out to be...
like someone else said in the topic before it cuts out half the image bits and pieces its not smooth you can spot it a mile off yadda yadda
but ..... at the end of the day if it works for people and they know how to use it why not use it its part of ps its just like the other tools wheather it be the pen lasso or magic wand if it works for you i dont see a problem with it

not only that why would some people spend hours on renders and not get the recognition for it
i saw one guy spend 5 hours or more so on a render and had one post no reps for it and then posted that why bother when no ones replys to the awesome renders he did
where as more of the popular renderers get 10 + pages
some people will use it just because why waste the time for 1 reply

 

Here's something to get you guys thinkin

Original: http://www.s2.exoload.com/106/1138690105.jpg

Render:


Added Extraction: (5 mins)


Manual Labour: (2 hrs)


You judge...

 

extraction=no skill

dont really care what you say about how its helpfull on the difficult special effects. you can EASILY render special effects if you have REAL skill. extraction doesnt evolve REAL skill.

 

Well, I believe the extraction tool is a skill in itself. I am not able to use it, and to be honest I have NO problem with it. I would prefer having a AWESOME render that took no skill to make than a VERY GOOD render that took AMAZING skill to make. Who cares HOW it's done, as long as the job gets done.

In the work force, people who use the extraction techinique get hired over the people who use ONLY the Pen Tool. Although if they ONLY do extraction, they WILL NOT get hired. They need to know how to do everything. So I believe as long as they use the pen tool also, I think it shouldn't matter at all. Like, effects its perfectly fine.

Merged Post:

And BTW Huy, I think that they both look equaly as good. I couldn't care if you spent that extra 1 hour 55 minutes on it. Because in the long run, it matters this much 0 on how good it looks in a piece of art.

 

Huy-N i personally think the actual cut with the sparkles looks way better than the extraction, its much less grainy and way more presentable

 

lol extraction tool is nothing new in fact it's been used for masking images waay waaaaaaay waaaaaaaay back. And this is not just amatuer but professionally also.

First of all, regarding "extraction takes no skill":

Take a freehand lasso, draw some rough edge around your image, cut the background. There you just "penned" it. Did it take more skill than extraction tool?

Extraction tool is just that, a tool. It's up to you on when/how to use it, and how to enhance its results. I've played with the extraction tool and corel knockout quite extensively prior to writing my tut. There's a lot of stuff I omitted cause I knew people wouldn't bother to use it correctly.

IE: Kazuya (sorry buddy xD) extraction of that water golem/elemental/thing was quite frankly horrible. You could see all the light edges of the background which remained because of improper extraction. Black parts of water which should've retained some light water color in the end was completely removed because of improper extraction.

Bottom line: Extraction tool might be more than it seems at first glance. There are ways to work with it.

A second myth is that if some method requires less skill, it's somehow inferior.

Let's see, you can either do 2837465673x182736464 by hand, or you can use a calculator. Would you go around and start calling people newbs for using their calculators?

It's not the method that matters, it's the result. If it's good, it's good. Getting an equal or better result in a shorter amount of time is a GOOD thing.

Of course this goes back to the point that you have to use the extraction tool properly. Currently I only know of a handful of situations where it can get you results both better and faster than penning. As I am a perfectionist, I typically discard any uses which trades quality for time.

Extraction tool is there to make your life easier. You just have to learn to use it properly.

Humans would still be in the stone ages if people refused to switch over to methods which "take less skill".

Huy-N: That render is =xxxxxxxxxxxxx Too much time lol

 

If you are so "FOR" the pen tool, and taking time to cut the image the professional way, why don't you take the extra 30 seconds to type your comments with periods and commas? It's an age old arguement over time management. It can be argued in thousands of forms, but it always comes down to one thing. The faster method will win because people will want things done on "their" schedule, not someone with a pen tool and 2 hours...

By the way: Huy-N those are both awesome anyway, I could care less people use, the outcome will affect decisions in the long run.

 

Dont know what to say about this but time duration a lot different then you`r cutting with extract tool and with pen..but pen too + extraction = awesome result..

 

to be honest i think the penned version looks way better cleaner and smother than the cheap ass extraction technique so what there to think about i done see whats to think about extraction is for ppl with no talent that like everyone to think there some sort of render god

 

Pen Tool all the way. And i think if someone wins in ROTY with using this, i think he/she should be disqualified.

 

lol
i dont think its that good tool
just render it with your pen tool
i dont realy like it it takes the fun of rendering away
but yeah when the winner of the ROTY wins with extractioin
i think thats fair if the rest knew how to use the tool

but thats just me *sigh*

i like the penned version better

 

What the hell is extraction?

 

but look at the effects!! i mean someone still needs to know how to work it, and where to use it. It means theres no more choppiness too