This is not a religious topic, don't make it one. Anyways, evolution...the basics are things that thrive, stay thriving until unable to thrive. Then they slowly over many years, and many generations evolve to a higher species. Well, the proof behind this is very small. For instance, you ask an evelutionist, "How old is that fossil?" He'll respond with, "Well, since it was found in the blah blah layer, it must be 100000 years old." Then you could ask, "Well, how do you know how old the layer is?" He'll answer, "Well, we know it's that old by the fossils found in the layer." Okay, does NO ONE ELSE in the world see the...circular reasoning? It's just funny to me. The person who made this THEORY popular was Charles Darwin. With a book named, On the Origin of Species. Why this theory is tought as fact in schools, is beyond me. This man, did not come up with this idea, he just popularized it. The geological column, is NOT proof of anything. Want to know why? No where on the earth can you see the whole column in it's fullness. Also, things seem out of order alot of times. Such as more complex animals below less complex. Animals are suposed to evolve into better animals, more comples, not less. Suposedly the lower you go, the older you get(the fossils.) The main problem I have with the geological column and the whole evolution theory is, so many times people have tried to "prove" it using frauds...if it were true, why use a fraud? Also, they made their hypothesis BEFORE looking at the data. So, they are making the data fit their hypothesis. Such as, if they found a less complex animal above a more complex..."Well, some earthquake MUST have happened." No. Your theory is obviously wrong. The hypothesis must agree with the data, not the other way around. Anyways, I'm done ranting, discuss.
They can do Carbon Dating and that is as precise as it gets, scientist can almost give you an exact date on the age of a fossil. Andit can all be done with a piece of Fossil smaller then your finger nail.
Please dont lauigh at the theories made by ppl some would call genuises, you obviously dont know the entire story because you have limited yourseld to relying on imformation solely on fossils and how the age of them can be determined. They dont pull this stuff out of their ass they have proof and logic to what they say.
No, really. They don't have much. If you want to call Darwin a genious, then that's your decision. But that's silly. He was far from genious. He didn't come up with anything, just agreed with someone from the past. Well, if ONE part of something is untrue, it makes the rest of it unbelievable, not trustworthy, eh? Merged Post: Besides, if I wanted to do more research, I could and I could post more, and I might later, but not now. I'm tired. Lol, don't tell me my opinion is wrong, state yours and move on.
Even though I have done evolution in science - It cannot change my beliefs into believing it Its stated in Science not in Religion It is logical btw why is this thread even made lol DarkStar
Heres my view. This will be evident from the following considerations: 1. The world could not make itself; for that would imply a horrible contradiction, namely, that the world was before it was; for the cause must always be before its effect. That which is not in being, can have no production; for nothing can act before it exists. As nothing has no existence, so it have no operation. There must therefore be something which has existence in itself, to give a being to those things that are; and every second cause must be an effect of some other before it be a cause. To be and not to be at the same time, is a manifest contradiction, which would infallibly take place if any thing made itself. That which makes is always before that which is made, as is obvious to the most illiterate peasant. If the world were a creator, it must be before itself as a created thing. 2. The production of the world could not be by chance. It was indeed the extravagant fancy of some ancient philosophers, that the original of the world was from a fortuitous concourse of atoms, which were in perpetual motion in an immense space, till at last a sufficient number of them met in such a happy conjunction as formed the universe in the beautiful order in which we now behold it. But it is amazingly strange how such a wild opinion, which can never be reconciled with reason, could ever find any entertainment in a human mind. Can any man rationally conceive, that a confused jumble of atoms, of diverse natures and forms, and some so far distant from others, should ever meet in such a fortunate manner, as to form an entire world, so vast in extent, so distinct in the order, so united in the diversities of natures, so regular in the variety of changes, and so beautiful in the whole composure? Such an extravagant fancy as this can only possess the thoughts of a disordered brain. 3. God created all things, the world, and all the creatures that belong to it. He attributes this work to himself, as one of the particular glories of his Deity, exclusive of all the creatures. So we read, Isa 44:24, "I am the LORD, who makes all things, who stretches out the heavens all alone, who spreads abroad the earth by myself." Chapter 45:12, "I have made the earth, And created man on it. I; My hands; stretched out the heavens, And all their host I have commanded." Chapter 40:12,13, "Who has measured the waters in the hollow of His hand, Measured heaven with a span And calculated the dust of the earth in a measure? Weighed the mountains in scales And the hills in a balance? Who has directed the Spirit of the LORD, or as his counselor has taught him?" Job 9:8, "He alone spreads out the heavens, and treads on the waves of the sea." These are magnificent descriptions of the creating power of God, and exceed every thing of the kind that has been attempted by the pens of the greatest sages of antiquity. By this operation God is distinguished from all the false gods and fictitious deities which the blinded nations adored, and shows himself to be the true God. Jer 10:11 "Thus you shall say to them: "The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth shall perish from the earth and from under these heavens. He has made the earth by His power, He has established the world by His wisdom, And has stretched out the heavens at His discretion." Psalm 96:5, " All the gods of the nations are idols: but the Lord made the heavens." Isa 37:16, "You are God, You alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth. You have made heaven and earth." None could make the world but God, because creation is a work of infinite power, and could not be produced by any finite cause: For the distance between being and not being is truly infinite, which could not be removed by any finite agent, or the activity of all finite agents united. This work of creation is common to all the three persons in the adorable Trinity. The Father is described in Scripture as the Creator, 1 Cor. 7:6, "The Father, of whom are all things." The same claim belongs to the Son, John 1:3, "All things were made by him," [that is to say-] the Word, the Son; John 1:3 "All things were made through Him, and without him was not any thing made that was made." The same honour belongs to the Holy Spirit, as Job 26:13, "By His Spirit He adorned the heavens." Job 33:4 "The Spirit of God has made me," says Elihu, "and the breath of the Almighty gives me life." All the three persons are one God; God is the Creator; and therefore all the external works and acts of the one God must be common to the three persons. Hence, when the work of creation is ascribed to the Father, neither the Son nor the Holy Spirit are excluded; but because as the Father is the fountain of the Deity, so he is the fountain of divine works. The Father created from himself by the Son and the Spirit; the Son from the Father by the Spirit; and the Spirit from the Father and the Son; the manner or order of their working being according to the order of their subsisting. The matter may be considered in this way: All the three persons being one God, possessed of the same infinite perfections; the Father, the first in subsistence, willed the work of creation to be done by his authority: "He spoke, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast."-In respect of immediate operation, it peculiarly belonged to the Son. For, "the Father created all things by Jesus Christ," Eph. 3:9. And we are told, that "all things were made through him," John 1:3. This work in regard of settlement and ornament, particularly belongs to the Holy Ghost. So it is said, Gen 1:2, "and the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters," to embellish and adorn the world, after the matter of it was formed. This is why it is also said, Job 26:13 "By His Spirit He adorned the heavens."
Regarding your question whether the Qur'anic account of creation is incompatible with man having evolved; if evolution entails, as Darwin believed, that "probably all the organic beings which have ever lived on this earth have descended from one primordial form, into which life was first breathed" (The Origin of Species, 455), I apprehend that this is incompatible with the Qur'anic account of creation. Our first ancestor was the prophet Adam (upon whom be peace), who was created by Allah in janna, or "paradise" and not on earth, but also created in a particular way that He describes to us: Now, the God of Islam is transcendently above any suggestion of anthropomorphism, and Qur'anic exegetes like Fakhr al-Din al-Razi explain the above words created with My two hands as a figurative expression of Allah's special concern for this particular creation, the first human, since a sovereign of immense majesty does not undertake any work "with his two hands" unless it is of the greatest importance (Tafsir al-Fakhr al-Razi. 32 vols. Beirut 1401/1981. Reprint (32 vols. in 16). Beirut: Dar al-Fikr, 1405/1985, 26.231-32). I say "the first human," because the Arabic term bashar used in the verse "Truly, I will create a man from clay" means precisely a human being and has no other lexical significance. Of all the premises of evolution, the two that we have characterized above as unbelief (kufr); namely, random mutation and natural selection, interpreted in a materialistic sense, are what most strongly urge its generalization to man. Why must we accept that man came from a common ancestor with animal primates, particularly since a fossil record of ----- forms is not there? The answer of our age seems to be: "Where else should he have come from?" Summary of Islamic Conclusions Allah alone is Master of Existence. He alone causes all that is to be and not to be. Causes are without effect in themselves, but rather both cause and effect are created by Him. The causes and the effects of all processes, including those through which plant and animal species are individuated, are His work alone. To ascribe efficacy to anything but His action, whether believing that causes (a) bring about effects in and of themselves; or (B) bring about effects in and of themselves through a capacity Allah has placed in them, is to ascribe associates to Allah (shirk). Such beliefs seem to be entailed in the literal understanding of "natural selection" and "random mutation," and other evolutionary concepts, unless we understand these processes as figurative causes, while realizing that Allah alone is the agent. This is apart from the consideration of whether they are true or not. As for claim that man has evolved from a non-human species, this is unbelief (kufr) no matter if we ascribe the process to Allah or to "nature," because it negates the truth of Adam's special creation that Allah has revealed in the Qur'an. Man is of special origin, attested to not only by revelation, but also by the divine secret within him, the capacity for ma'rifa or knowledge of the Divine that he alone of all things possesses. By his God-given nature, man stands before a door opening onto infinitude that no other creature in the universe can aspire to. Man is something else. I am a Muslim stating my opinion & views DarkStar
I thought we agreed not to bring religion into this? I could bring in my religion, but I would get flamed, lol.
lol Thats just my beliefs - Yes evolution exists only in texbooks for me I was just stating my opinion in my Religion DarkStar
Well now, since this is NOW a religious debate, and we all know what those leads towards, I will be closing this. If someone believes this should be re-opened, they can PM myself and give me atleast 3 valid points as to why this should be re-opened.
