Credit Suggestion

if this system does come out den i think it would be really good if we could sell our credits to the 'bank' , however when we sold them to the bank we would get less money back so for example you can try and sell them to other people for the original rate $5 for 1000 or sell them straight to the bank for say $4 for 1000 creds. what do you think???

 

A couple of problems I can see with this are:

People who bought the credits for dirt cheap will make a small killing from artificially fixing the price to an inflated level.

If you can buy from the bank, why would you buy credits from another member??? This means people looking to sell their credits are going to find it more difficult to do so, thereby rendering them pretty much redundant for some people.

Also, people could arrange to sell them via instant messengers for less than the $5 then transfer the credits on GR. How can admin check that they were sold for exactly $5 per 1000k? If you are fixing the rate and people aren't buying from other members, and only the bank... then people being people WILL sell for less privately - that's the nature of competition. Admin would have to see a copy of the paypal transaction for ever credit sale and would be a nightmare I would imagine to keep track of.


It seems a popular idea, but I don't think it is something people should just jump on the bandwagon without thinking about the immediate and wider effects that it will have and the potential problems with implimenting it.

 

If people sell on MSN, it's there choice, but this will make people sell on the site for the same.

If something doesn't happen soon, credits will be worth nothing.

Credits aren't worth nothing at the moment, but if credits go too low, GR will lose alot of members due to credit whores.

Even though they bring alot of activity onto the site.

 

@ Elektik - Unfortunatly, I really don't want that to happen so I will have to create an opposition to that statement. A majority of the members in Gamerenders are "Money-Hungry" people; I know, because I talk to a wide variety of members from the site.

@ Stillmatic - You aren't the first person to tell me that; I've heard that from countless designers. It's not a bad thing to be honest, their work has still helped a majority of people. Aditionally, little do they know that if they do spend 5 minutes on a piece of artwork, it shows; and they probably won't have as much 'business' in the future. I've already pin-pointed all the designers I know that spend close to no time on tags, I never purchase their art anymore. They only end up harming themselves by spoiling their reputation.

About your statement, "I'm just saying if this is put in it will be mad rush to sell credits." Obviously, that MAY be true, but at least for the few people purchasing it, they will only sell at that peticular rate. It doesn't mean the credit is worthless, everyday someone new posts a topic requesting for credits. Besides, the staff members are still working on removing excess credits along the system. If they continue to do what they are doing AND if they impliment this rule, credits will be removed from the system and the ones that remain will keep a constant value.

@ J Maj - The credits aren't inflated, rather deflated; therefore it's value is increasing as time goes by. This summer I was able to sell my credits at the 200:1 ratio, just a month or two ago, the credit started to drop at a rather fast rate. Some people say it was because of competition, others say it's because there are too many credits in the system. I say it's both. The staff are working on removing excess credits from the system along with removing the feature of "posting for credits." Obviously, this has helped, but not enough. By implimenting this rule we are finally completely fixing the problem by creating a FIXED rate to sell the credit at so that the value remains steady; there would no inflation nor deflation.

@ Specialized - Others may argue, but it's a little too late for that now. Gamerenders has had a credit system since it was practically created; if it was removed, do you know how many members would leave? Some people have $50-$150 dollars worth of credits on their account, that's a substantial amount of money, you can't just take it away.

@ Chakka - "Credit whores" will never go away as long as the credit system is there; and since it is completely factual to state that it will never go away, I believe it's right to state as well that "Credit whores" will always be in Gamerenders.

@ Vanquisher - You raise some good points, probably one of the most logical posts I've seen here. I'll address your problems.

1)"People who bought the credits for dirt cheap will make a small killing from artificially fixing the price to an inflated level."

For that statement, I can't say anything about that. But unfortunatly, those are the people are suffering, obviously there will be the members that made a quick buck because of this rule, but a majority of the members have had those large amount of credits for over 2 months, and it should be noted that just 2 months ago, you were able to sell credits at the 200:1 ratio. An example: EBK. He has had over 60 grand in credits since the beginning of this summer when credits were selling extremely fast at the 200:1 ratio. I would know, I sold many credits as well as know friends who purchased a large amount of credits at that period of time.

2)"If you can buy from the bank, why would you buy credits from another member??? This means people looking to sell their credits are going to find it more difficult to do so, thereby rendering them pretty much redundant for some people."

That is true actually. Haven't considered that, but I'm not neccessarily pushing to create a bank, rather a rule that simply states you must sell credits at a standard rate.

3)"Also, people could arrange to sell them via instant messengers for less than the $5 then transfer the credits on GR. How can admin check that they were sold for exactly $5 per 1000k? If you are fixing the rate and people aren't buying from other members, and only the bank... then people being people WILL sell for less privately - that's the nature of competition."

No doub't about that, that will definetly happen which is why I mentioned earlier that the staff should impliment a rule that aditionally states that if members are found selling credits at a cheaper, or higher rate, they will be suspended and fined. Not everybody will be caught, but a substantial amount of members will. There will ALWAYS be minor flaws, possibly implimenting a rule that states, "Both the purchaser of the credits and the seller will be fined and suspended if found pertaking in a cheaper/more expensive credit transaction." Anywho, I doub't this will be a problem. Once people realize the rate has gone up, why would they want to sell their credits for cheaper? At first, when the rule is implimented, there will be a large rush of people to sell their credits, but as time progresses, this will stop and credits will be in large demand as it once was.

 

I don't fully understand this whole idea. If members must sell at a standard rate how will staff fully know how much the person sold their credits for? Lets say

X Person makes a thread selling 5k credits at your 200:1 Ratio. 1000 credits for 5 US dollar. Meaning this should sell for roughly 25 US Dollars yes? Though no one is really interested so

Y Person contacts via msn and says he'll buy for 20 USD. Being frustrated that no one wants to buy his credits X person agrees. Y sends 20 dollars via paypal and X sends credits.

How staff tell how much X sold for? Your just saying this is a risk to be taken but if anyone is found out actually selling for cheaper by some miracle they'll be banned? Yes now that I think about it may help but I'd say a huge amount of people are always trying to get a bang for their buck so would go bargain hunting and get that good deal thats below the set ratio. Am I understanding this correctly?

If I sold my credits for your ratio would make around x2 what I paid for, scary I have so little credits. People will be out bursting to sell their credits in my opinion, if I can make this much off my little batch then people with lots of credits whew like someone else said will be making a small fortune.

The reason people sell for less in the first place is frustration. Like I said before I've seen people trying to sell credits for days upon days and when they finally get an offer that's below the price they wanted but still seems fair they'll usually almost always sell because they are tired of trying to sell, and when it all comes down to it Money > Credits.

Did EBK really make 60 grand? That seems highly excessive.

 

For starters, I believe EBK actually made the 60 grand himself; however it took him a couple of months to do so, he is a designer afterall.

As for what you stated above, there is NO DOUBT that people will do that, but hopefully the next person that goes to that peticular person won't be as lucky and will inform a staff member what that member is doing. There will always be minor flaws, and as somebody stated earlier, it will take the community of Gamerenders to make this rule work.

There are risks involved with implimenting this rule, just as there was a risk of loosing members when implimenting the rule about disabling credits when you make a post. Yet, the staff took it, and although it hasn't been noticeable to help the situation, it has helped to some extent. It's a risk Gamerenders will have to take, there will be some people that will sell credits under the table, but a majority of the members will not do that. I suppose it all comes down to morals, and hefty penalties for members caught selling credits at a cheaper rate. That is the only solution to the problem you specified, that I can think of.

 

i wouldnt really make deals outside of GR as sniper i think stated before u can get scammed and not only u lose ur credits but u'd probably also get banned if u report that u were scammed and they'll assume u were trying sell them for cheaper b/c u couldve just sold them here on GR

 

Sounds like a music idea now a days. " Yeah you can't download these songs/cds off the internet if you do you'll go to jail for 50 years and end up paying thousands of dollars ". Out of the millions that do it barely any get caught. The idea is good to help Gamerenders but just won't in my opinion and will only piss people off more.

I have a question though, if your so tight about this rule why are you selling credits cheap?

"Normally 6000 credits is $30 with the 200:1 ratio. I will give it to you for $24 US. PM me back if you are interested. "

Merged Post:

I've done 99% of my deals by just talking via MSN havent been scammed once. Just bought someone 2 games on itunes, everything went perfectly. I only deal with people who have good reputation and decent amount of posts. If you go talking to some dude with 0 reps and 5 posts of course your're letting yourself be scammed.

 

i personally couldnt careless how many postive reps one has
it can just be an act, lying and giving ur self a fake image on interent isnt exactly hard

but u could get screwed over, anywayz as sniper said why sell for lower on msn when u can get more by sellin here?

for example lisa, from what i saw she was liked by ppl pretty trustworthy , yet their was a huge scam

 

<Sigh> If you go back and read my post you would understand my view on why people sell for less.

People can scam you on site or off site, you send money they run off with it easy as that. Your never guaranteed to be safe. Im saying out of my 200 + transaction only one has been bad, and by bad I mean someone told me to send money I did, they sent it back. I was part of an experiment.

About Lisa true, but also at any moment Shaggy could come in and take all your credits and just not care, your taking risks with everyone you deal with.

don't want to get too off topic here.

 

Thanks Sniper I got you now.

And one more thing GR will be selling the creds for a set price right, so whats to stop me from sellings creds cheaper than they do. I say this because people that buy the creds will most likely buy the creds from GR instead of members. Which will force the members here to lower there price so people will buy from them. Then they can just earn back there creds in the auction section by selling ------ or --- tags. Then they can resell the creds they get for a lower price so people will actually buy from them, instead of GR. Overall the idea has to be carfully plan out if we were to go through with it, because it does have some flaws that can be taken advantage of it.

To those who say if the GR price was set to $4 for 1,000 creds, so they members would lowerer the amount because they will lose money I think your wrong. Because the members didnt buy there creds in the first place they earned it, so whatever they sell it for would be 100% percent profit for them. Like me for an example I wouldnt mind selling my creds for $3.50 for 1,000.

 

I never sell my credits cheaper than the 250:1 ratio, that ratio doesn't sell anymore, which is why I am strongly recommended the rate be pushed back to the 200:1 ratio that it was merely 2 months ago, as it rapidly changed to 250:1, and now people are selling it at the 300:1 ratio.
And obviously, people's experiences are different from others. I have been scammed multiple times from transactions that have taken place outside on instant messengers, including on forums outside Gamerenders. Which is why I always request something in GR and close the topic so the person is unable to edit their posts, and so there is hard proof to show incase I do get scammed. I believe members would want that trust. Besides, which "Well known reputable member with high post and reputation count" would want to risk his/her clean record merely to make an extra dollar or two by selling their credits outside of Gamerenders? Nobody. Only members who aren't so well known, who by the way you said you "WOULD NOT TRUST" to pertake in transactions over instant messengers, etc, would do that.

As for the music industry, that's a totally different story. The music industry, although so big, cannot monitor a million users. Gamerenders is a relatively large community but is much smaller to monitor. We can't really compare the 2 together. If a "Temporary rule" needs to be established, so be it. Besides, that is what the staff did for the "Disabling of the feature of postng for credits" a little while ago. It doesn't hurt to try, to consequences can't be much worse to GR than what may happen if the rate of the credit continues to decline. I have talked to members, many people don't even accept credits as a rate of currency on here anymore, since people have started to note that it has, "no value."

And you yourself said, "Your never guaranteed to be safe." Indeed that is true, but by pertaking in a transaction VIA Gamerenders; you are eligable for scam protection. Any transactions that take place on instant messengers are NOT eligable for protection.

And about Shaggy, "but also at any moment Shaggy could come in and take all your credits and just not care." I don't believe he would do that, as I am sure he paid a mass amount of $ for this forum. By doing that, he would practically make all the members leave, and give himself a bad reputation. He gets money from the traffic he gets at this site, by doing that, he would decrease the traffic of the foum, and thus decreasing the revenues he takes from this site as well. Make sense? He could if he wanted too, but it wouldn't be a smart decision, from a "business" point of view.

 

The fact you're still here bitching doesn't help the site's reputation as well. How about you let us ban you, and we'll remove the 10k? For the common good!

As for this suggestion:

Though I appreciate your feedback and the fact you're wanting to help, such a proposal is not the way to do things. If Admins ever considered this, you would only hurt the site...having not read the rest of the thread, i'm sure someone stated why.

Andrew

 

WHAT ABOUT WE HAVE A BANK WHERE WE PLACE OUR MONEY
AND FOR LEAVING IN BANK RATHER THANN KEEPING WITH US

WE GET INTEREST AT A CERTAIN PERCENT PER DAY?

 

That doesn't solve anything, did you even read the topic?
Besides, we are trying to ELIMINATE credits from the system, not INCREASE the amount of credits. By implimenting interest in the bank, it would simply create more problems for the staff.
What would be the point of having a bank where members place their money? The staff aren't implimenting interest any time soon, from what I know.
I strongly believe you don't know what this topic is about, read a few pages back.