Chavez And Hypocrisy

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ferret, Feb 17, 2007.

  1. .:Apostle:.

    .:Apostle:. Well-Known Member

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    If he was elected by his people, I don't mind him then.. He could turn Venezuela into a socialist or communist state for all I care, its Chavez and the Venezuelans choice.
     
  2. xlink

    xlink GR's Tech Enthusiast

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    because higher taxes also lower economic efficiency.

    it's trade off between efficient laissez fairre distribution and fair distribution.
     
  3. lllAE86lll

    lllAE86lll GR Since 2005

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    Dude are you serious ? Have u ever been to Venezuela ?

    Venezuela is so damn crap now because of the Ghey president Chavez....

    Kidnap happens every secs, too much damn crime outside the street and much more else going on.. Even people who dress like cops with guns and everything. They go to your store and they say for a search for BS and they ask you for money ..

    And Chavez - Don't care...
     
  4. Morv

    Morv Well-Known Member

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    ^^ pwn't.

    People here act like Venezuela is a nice place to live.. =/
     
  5. Bam

    Bam Well-Known Member

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    Chavez is a retard.
     
  6. ferret

    ferret Well-Known Member

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    Free trade = non-regulated (non-free?) trade, correct? Meaning, instead of having to pay around $300 bucks to ship a big-ass case of beef jerky to Canada, it's free (no tarriffs etc.). How does this allow me to exploit another country? The Canadian guy can send me a case of, say, a big-ass case of bacon for the same deal (he doesn't have to pay those tarriffs, isn't regulated as to how much he can send in, etc. etc.).

    Tell me, how is that exploitation? Also, tell me how this agreement concerns Venezuela when... Venezuela (and the rest of Central/South America) isn't in NA(North American)FTA? Tell me, how am I exploting a Mexican citizen by buying a big-ass case of, say, tacos from him without making him pay me extra and telling him how much he can ship to me?

    All hail communism! Some guys named the USSR tried the exact same thing, actually. Turns out their country became piss-poor and around 30 million people died over absolutely nothing other than somebody's whim. Communism and Socialism look decent on paper, but don't really work out all that well in my eyes. Who knows, maybe I'm just brainwashed....

    Yes, and did you also see the ----loads of money and food and other stuff that he handed out in the months prior to the election? Did you see the "Vote against Imperialism! Vote against America! Vote for Chavez!" signs painted on a missionary compound filled with, you guessed it, a group of American missionaries (I've got pictures if you want them, but I'll need to blur some faces)? Looks pretty good to the average person and more power to them if they like Chavez. I just don't happen to like him.

    P.S.
    On smoking in your cars: that's a California law as far as I know. I know for a fact that I, in another state, can do whatever I damn well please in my car so long as I'm not drunk, running people over, or some combination of the two.
     
  7. Machiavelli X

    Machiavelli X Well-Known Member

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    Ferret you fool. You amaze me with your ignorance. Free trade allows companies to outsource labor and manufacture goods overseas with little to no regulation or taxation by their native government. In the same way, these companies can often sell their product to other countries without regulations or taxation also. The upper class is the one who reaps the benefits. The millions of workers who produce these merchandize are paid absolutely nothing while there bosses and the people who own the factories are allowed to ship there merchandise to different countries with almost no tariffs so while the workers suffer the rich contuine to get richer and richer. In your example, that "guy" who sending you the tacos is paying his workers 20cents an hour. Free trade only benefits the ruling class. Ferret you disappoint me.
     
  8. becks

    becks Well-Known Member

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    well this is something new and you have enlighted me on this.aint formed an opinion as of yet.
     
  9. Machiavelli X

    Machiavelli X Well-Known Member

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    @the attack on USSR

    The USSR was not a communist/socialist country and I do not support them in anyway. It is a buorgoeuis lie that the USSR was truly communist. But you try to industrializes a country in 20 years.
     
  10. ferret

    ferret Well-Known Member

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    ...making those companies free (oooh, freedom!) to do so (to exercise those rights that they are granted! WOW!).

    So, as per what you're telling me:
    - A company may outsource and to hire foriegn labor and/or set up shop in another country
    - There are little to no taxes placed on trade and actions like the above
    - Those same companies can pay their workers whatever they wish to pay them
    - The nations not allowing for this taxation (or lack thereof) were free to say "---- no, we're not signing that agreement"

    That's what you're telling me. What I don't get is where the "it's oppressing everyone and ----ing up the poor" part is coming in. At each step of the process, someone can say "no." That's going down the line from the government that signs the agreement to the worker that gets paid ---- wage. The worker can quit and find new employment if he wishes. The government can say no. The local districts can say "no, we don't want your factory here." The government can say, after seeing the effects, that "no, we don't like this, we're not going to follow the agreement." Where is the lack of freedom in this?

    If you tell me that there are no other jobs, well that's very true in many places. But that's not the job of the NAFTA, so it's irrelevant. Sure, placing a factory twenty miles outside Tijuana will give about 3,000 people a stable income, but if they don't want to partake in it, they don't have to.

    The point is this: it's not the agreement that makes the lives miserable. It's the individual that decides that he wants to pay his workers what he decides he wants to. You're not expecting an entry level pay of $35/hour for assembling clothing, are you? If the Mexicans (we're using them as an example, here, but you can substitute "Mexico" for any nation that allows companies to outsource into its borders) would like to pass minimum wage laws, more power to them. Then the companies would either have to pay that minimum wage or pack up and leave. Freedom can and does work both ways.

    In my example, the "guy" that is sending me tacos is a private citizen that owns a business that I order a product from (actually, not tacos, but you don't need to know what that particular product is. I put that in more simple terms and said "tacos.") The "guy" is making more money because he does not have to pay a rediculous amount of money to ship his product into my country. That thar' freedom, it's magical ----.

    ---

    They were a communist nation. Maybe not your definition of communism, but the fact of the matter is that they were. "Equality for all, no god, all for the State" and the lot. The reality, like everything else, is different from words on paper. However, those words on paper are the official version.

    I also fail to see how stating a simple fact is an "attack." Tell me, do they teach you this in school?

    As a sidenote (and I know it won't be in the inevitable reply): Machaivelli, the nation was made piss-poor during the sixty plus years of communism. Their workers were paid ---- wages, there were no rewards for doing anything resembling good work, and the nation fell apart because there was no incentive to do better. Look at Soviet cars as opposed to Western cars from the same period for an example.

    Sorry, Machaivelli, but your blindness disappoints me.
     
  11. Morv

    Morv Well-Known Member

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    you might want to stop calling ferret a "fool", because you're allways getting owned by ferret.
     
  12. Machiavelli X

    Machiavelli X Well-Known Member

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    Those workers need to get money and the only possible job oppurinty is at the factory. They are depeant on the factory if they dont work for 20cents then they cant fed there family. The factory owners know this so they paid them so minimal so they can get some much more profit.

    Merged Post:


    You might want to contribute to the arugment instead of just posting illrevelant stuff.
     
  13. ferret

    ferret Well-Known Member

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    Those workers need money, that is true However, it's not the company's responsibility to provide for their needs unless that company makes it so. The company can, unless there's a minimum wage or similar law, pay them .20 cents a day or they can pay then $300. It's not the company's responsibility. Part of the whole idea of "freedom," allowing people to do what they wish. There's a part of the Declaration of Independance that states that the people have the right to "life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness."

    P.S.
    Don't call others names unless you're willing to take whatever the name-calling brings, be it punishment or the retorts of others. Didn't you learn that in grade school?
     
  14. .:Apostle:.

    .:Apostle:. Well-Known Member

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    @Morv

    Are you parasite living inside ferret's arm pit?
    I wish you could contribute anything to the argument instead of following ferret around the topics and telling us how awesome you think he is :)


    Anyway I cant say if communism really works or not, but so far China is setting a good example for communism economically (though alot China's areas/cities are still very underdeveloped).
     
  15. ferret

    ferret Well-Known Member

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    Chinese communism is the ------- child of Capitalism, Corruption, and Communism.
     

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