^^^^^^About those pics buddy. They were done by Hamas , a terrorist organaisation who everyone is against. The IDF does worst to the palestinians while occupying their land. I'm sure I could find pictures just like that if I wanted to. When Israel kills the innocents they are just gonna get attacked again and again. They need to stop using " an eye for an eye" tactic.Cuz it leaves everyone blind. Instead they should pull out of all the Palestinian land and break down the illegal wall as well. If they really wanted to I'm sure that peace would be possible. And probably get a peacekeeping force to help out. Cuz we know that there are guys in palestine like Hamas who would probably not be satisfied until Israel is destroyed. So a peacekeeping force would keep them under control . Thats my take.
That has anything to do with the point, how? War isn't pretty and never will be. War=death and that's life. I'm sorry that innocent people are dieing, but the Israelies that are dying are just as important as the Arabs. Besides, Lebenon started this and Israel will finish it. Simple.
Machaivelli, enjoy: An Israeli hostage held at Munich in 1972. The hostage was later killed along with the others heading to the helicoptor by Palestinian gunmen. Those with numbers next to their names are dead, thanks to somebody wanting to "stop oppression." Look up Ghandi, Machaivelli. Rocket damage. All dead in the rocket attacks. Men, women, and children. Victims because of their nationality. Not because they wore a uniform, because of their nationality. That's something you can't say about Israelis. What warrants this? You know that this has been going on since 1949, before an Israeli had even fired a shot in anger. They were attacked, they have been repeatedly attacked, and they are still being attacked. It is cited as "neccessary for the peace of the Palestinians." Do you think that killing a family is worth that? Apparently it is, since they're nothing but Jews. And by the way, these were average Israelis. Not soldiers. Not crusaders. Not occupiers.
Dude. What are you trying to prove with these pictures?. The same if not worse has happened to Lebanon and Palestine thanks to the IDF not from a terrorist group. "That has anything to do with the point, how? War isn't pretty and never will be. War=death and that's life. I'm sorry that innocent people are dieing, but the Israelies that are dying are just as important as the Arabs. Besides, Lebenon started this and Israel will finish it. Simple." Lebanon didn't start nothing. It was Hezbollah. Don't say things which aren't true.
Never said that the Lebanese started it. I said the Lebanese would, unfortunately, suffer so long as they allowed Hezbollah to be there. It'll take a lot more than the Israelis pulling out of everything (and if they did, the Arabs would then demand Israel). It'll take a change in the attitudes of the public, and the protests today prove that it hasn't changed and probably won't for quite some time. The Lebanese allowing the Hezbollah to shoot rockets into Israel from their territory puts them at fault. They have a relatively modern military, but not a single troop set foot in Southern Lebanon as part of an operation against Hezbollah. Didn't raise a finger, but complained quite loudly when the Israelis had to do their jobs for them. Don't make up things that aren't true.
I was responding to the other guy. The one who posted above not u there. I'm not making up anything . The lebanese army isn't really powerful at the moment to take on Hezbollah.Plus there is alot of stuff to with politics as well. That doesn't give Israel the right to do what they want. I agree things would be better without Hezbollah. However the way Israel is going about it isn't correct at all.
I am aware of that Ferret , and over here we are disgusted of the Druze , they dont consider their selves to be Arabs , when they stop an arab on the highway for a ticket or something , they refuse to speak Arabic with them , and only use the Hebrew language , they dont consider themselves to be Arabs , and neither do we consider them to be ones as well. And these pictures mean absoloutley nothing and you know it , they are nothing compared to pictures from Palestine of what happens every day where a kid is blown into pieces by a tank (no it wasn't a damn mistake , it was right in front of him) and his mother starts collecting his pieces and putting them in a bowl , i think it happened like 3 years ago. No ferret , they dont deserve to die , but you know damn well why Palesteinians blow themselves up , its because of all the civilians that the IDF kills , men/women/children , all the lives that they have ruined , all the families that they have seperated , for the way they treat Israeli Arabs in this country , not giving them the same rights as the Jews , they even try to make it harder for Israeli Arabs to get to college or what you call a Med School by making there materials 4x times bigger and raising the requirements whenever they can while every Jewish Citizen in this country knows that their material and requirements is a million times easier and smaller , but yet we still get the highest grades , you have no idea what an Israeli Arab has to go through to go to college , yes i know that whereever you live its hard , but not when they refuse you intentionally , you can keep studying for months but all they have to do is ask you to come for an interview thats nothing but very basic questions like your name , your father's/etc... which ofcourse only Arabs are asked to attend and they just mail you and tell you you weren't excepted. They try to make the Arabs lifes as bad as they can.
I was actually visiting Israel during the Hezbollah attacks. 3 rockets shot behind the house I was visiting at one point. One rocket went into the house of my cousin who was married the 2nd day I was in Israel. It was maybe.. 5 feet away from her when it entered her house in Haifa. War isn't pretty.
You do know that the official language of Israel is Hebrew. Hey, if they stop an Arab on the highway over here, they speak English, the language most spoken in this country. It is the same anywhere else. If you're in Rome, do as the Romans do. See, the people in those pictures were very different. They were going to work, going to school, or just standing outside. They were sitting down to eat at their homes, and most that are killed in rocket attacks haven't even picked up a rifle against the Palestinians. They didn't wear uniforms, they didn't have terrorists in their homes, they weren't standing around with a gun and a ski mask. They were atheltes going off to compete in the Olympics. They were ordinary people just living their lives. Most would actually like to not see the Israelis having to attack Gaza and Lebanon because it means that their sons or daughters could and sometimes would be killed in the fighting. Most wouldn't like to see Israelis with tanks driving through the West Bank because they know that no matter what those tanks do, no matter who those tanks kill, there will be rocket attacks in response. They wouldn't like to see a wall built because they know that it will result in even more busses exploding. They wouldn't like to see a lot of things that happen. They were just ordinary people in their homes. They didn't live on military bases, they didn't stand next to Katyushya launchers to play. They were innocent civilians, their lives interrupted because somebody on the other side of a wall doesn't think they have a right to exist. That's the fundamental difference. Israelis do, largely, believe that a Palestinian state should co-exist with Israel. Hamas, however, wants Israel "pushed into the sea," as numerous Arab armies have failed to do since 1948. Hezbollah wants to see a bus explode and an Israeli killed because he's an Israeli. You're saying it right there. They don't *deserve* it, but it's better for Palestinians to blow them up instead of Israelis to blow Palestinians up because the Palestinians are oppressed. Hey Shotokan, speak to the UN probes about it, the independant probes, and the Israeli probes. And it's nothing because they aren't Arabs, but Israelis. Unfortunately, they're civilians just like the Palestinians, and they were intentionally attacked in the way you describe Israelis attacking them. It's a double standard and you know it. You don't give two ----s about them because they're not Paletinians and it wouldn't fit with your agenda. There have been dozens of probes in the last ten years alone, and none have come up with results. Independant probes, many from nations that don't even support Israel, many more without a single Israeli on the team. The only people reporting this are Palestinians and the terrorists who use blow it up for propaganda use. And somewhere along the line, somebody else should've seen some of the stuff you're claiming. But the thing is that they haven't, and to be honest it's getting quite old with the standard "ISRAELIS ARE KILLING ARABS BECAUSE THEY HATE THEM AND THEY DON'T WANT THEM TO LIVE" responses that people like yourself bring up. You say Israeli deaths are bad, but they are nothing compared to Arab deaths. Civilian deaths, Shotokan, not terrorists or soldiers. Innocent civilians. You're just as racist as you claim the Israelis to be. You've pulled up blatant propaganda, many times with these pictures not featuring backstories, only wounded/dead. The Israelis did this, the Israelis did that, but the Palestinians are good little boys and girls who are being oppressed and have the right to fire a rocket into a crowd of people. Here's an idea: stop shooting/bombing/rocketing the Israelis. Remember, the Israelis didn't start the war. They're being rocketed because they're on "Arab" land (though Jews occupied it for thousands of years before there was a Palestinian [Arab brought by the Ottomans]). Look at India, specifically Ghandi. He and his people suffered real oppression. Not being allowed to protest, racism, and much of the stuff that you claim is happening to the Palestinians becuase they're "innocent" Arabs. Did he and his people pick up rockets and start killing people? Nope. Instead, they held silent, non-violent protests. Didn't raise a finger when wooden bullets were fired into them. Didn't flinch when tear gas was launched into the crowd. Didn't respond when shot at with fire hoses and water cannons. No violence. Look at India today. Free of the British and a largely developed country. The British are gone from the Indians' homes, and India is an independant nation. People are free to do as they wish. So long as the Palestinians keep up the attacks, the Israelis will respond. Shut them off, the Israelis won't respond because they don't have anybody to respond to. But that won't happen because people exist that want others killed because of their nationality.
Now am racist? its true that Israeli civilians that get killed are not armed and not even in the army , but so are some of the Palesteinians that they shoot from helicopters or blow up and then say nothing but "It was a mistake and we will open an investigation about it". And you're talking as if the non silent protests started because of nothing , they were silent before , but after all the things that israeli army has done they were no longer silent.
Are you seroisly trying to say that the Palestines are not opperesed. What you are forgetting is that decades of curfews, checkpoints, road closures and settlement expansion have robbed the Palestinians of self-sufficiency and fostered a culture of dependence and powerlessness. The Israeli's have taken there homes. "In his book, 'Pity the Nation', Robert Fisk meets with Palestinians in the refugee camps from whom he learns of the land and homes they had left behind. He then travels to Israel and finds the very same homes, now inhabited by Israelis, some of whom had purchased the properties from the Israeli government housing department." "In 1967, Israel invaded and militarily occupied Palestinian 22% and began to build thousands of illegal settlements for Israeli citizens by first evicting Palestinians, destroying their crops and bulldozing their homes. Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were ethnically cleansed from their land, with many now living in refugee camps in Jordan, Lebanon and within the occupied Palestinian territories themselves." Also ferret you are aware that collective punsihment is illegal and you seem to be claming that the people in Palestine should get out or get killed. "Innocent civilians are being collectively punished in Lebanon by the state of Israel in deliberate acts of terrorism as described in Article 33 of the 1949 Geneva Convention. Article 33. No protected person may be punished for an offence he or she has not personally committed. Collective penalties and likewise all measures of intimidation or of terrorism are prohibited. Pillage is prohibited. Reprisals against protected persons and their property are prohibited." Imagine the disgust if an entire suburb was destroyed by police raids because they knew a murderer lived in that suburb. Or imagine if a shop owner murdered a theif he'd caught stealing his goods, and then went after the theif's family, murdered them and burnt down his and his neighbour's homes, just for good measure. Would you accept that as 'self-defense'?
People are acting Like Israel is so innocent and like they are just doing nothing and getting hated on for no reason.Lets not forget. Under UN Resolution 242, Israel is required by international law to withdraw from all the territories occupied in 1967, including East Jerusalem. The United Nations General Assembly has repeatedly condemned Israel's occupation of the territories as illegal (see UN resolutions 338, 1397, and 1402, among others). Israel's continued occupation of Palestine, sanctioned and maintained by the US, is one of the most serious obstructions to a just and lasting peace in the Middle East.
"Attention, Kettle. This is Pot. Color check, over." No, that's the thing. I never said that they needed to be killed. I never said that their deaths were worth any more than anybody else's deaths, either, which is something that you and Shotokan have claimed because they're Arab. Killing innocents makes you just as bad as the Israelis you claim that are so demonic and evil. There is no way to justify it. There is no reason for it. There is nothing that you can pull up, no pictures of Palestinians or no interview or no book, that can justify it. And you want to know why the Golan Heights, parts of Gaza and the West Bank, and the Sinai were taken by the Israelis? Attacks were launched from those areas. Some were innocent in those areas, others were guilty. What the Israelis had done and are still doing is called counter-insurgency. The Israelis, however, have no qualms about evicting an entire group because of two or three rocketeers. And collective punishment is illegal under the Geneva Convention for prisoners of war. It does not apply to terrorists (defined, legally, as people fighting without identification, uniforms, or some other identifying feature). In fact, the Geneva Convention which you're quoting demands that terrorists be shot on sight. Would you rather have that done? You can't pick and choose which parts you want of a document, especially if you're only doing it to support your claims. That's fine. However, it does not apply to the Palestinians. The Palestinians, under the convention, have no legal definiton. They are refugees in transition, a consequence of the mass exodus in 1948/9. That does not mean that they deserve to be killed, but under the Convention, they have no legal definition. If they do not have that legal definition, they are not subject to the protections of that document. Personally, I wish they'd give the Palestinians some form of definition. It would make much of this trouble go away, simply because they could claim the rights that Israelis, Americans, Britons, Itallians, and Jordanians alike can all claim. Unfortunately, there is no Palestinian nation, which means that these people can't recieve a definition under numerous treaties. That same article can be applied to the terrorists shooting rockets into Israel. Other articles also provide for them to be shot without a trial, detained, their property seized, and even destruction of areas where they consolidate. Believe it or not, while innocents may live in the areas the Israelis have bulldozed, the Convention provides for it. Your definition of "collective punishment" is also wrong. I'll use an example, as I feel it would be easier to explain. The example below is from June of 1944, and was a reprisal/punishment for the village supporting the French Resistance (men/women with distinctive identifying features [usually armbands] that were many time ignored by the Germans). On their 450 mile drive from the south of France to the Normandy invasion area, the 2nd SS Panzer Division 'Das Reich' (15,000 men aboard 1,400 vehicles, including 209 tanks) under the command of SS General Lammerding, arrived at Limoges, a town famous for its porcelain. In the small town of St. Junien (30 kilometres from Limoges) the 'Der Führer Regiment' was regrouping. Following many encounters with the local maquis in which two German soldiers were killed, a unit of the regiment arrived at ORADOUR (believed to be a hotbed of maquis activity) in a convoy of trucks and half-tracks. At about 2 PM on this Saturday afternoon the 120 man SS unit surrounded the village ordering all inhabitants to parade in the market place for an identity check. Women and children were separated from the menfolk and herded into the local church. The men were herded in groups into six carefully chosen local garages and barns and shot. Their bodies were then covered with straw and set on fire. The 452 women and children in the church were then suffocated by smoke grenades lobbed in through the windows and shrapnel grenades that were thrown down the nave while machine-guns raked the interior. The church was then set on fire. That is what the article is referring to. You say that the Israelis, in essence, run across the border, pop a few Palestinians, and run right back across. You also, above, showed a picture of a tank barrel aiming at a Palestinian man. Did you know that it is standard operating procedure in a column of tanks to have their guns to the side. I'll explain below. (1. - aiming front) (2. - aiming left) (3. - aiming right) (4. - aiming behind) Most of your "attrocities" do not provide backstories, and some are even from the same events, just different people/angles. Still others simply show a picture made to appear as an "attrocity." I wasn't aware that soldiers taking a piss was considered an attrocity, nor was I aware that a weapon aimed in the direction of a civilian was oppression. I was also unaware that standard crowd control tactics used around the world are now attrocities. I guess you'd better start condemning every nation who has a police force, now, because they obviously oppress people with riot control tactics. Did you know that shooting a person in a violent protest (such as throwing rocks at police/soldiers, petrol bombs etc.) is actually quite legal? There have been some instances of attrocities on both sides. However, they are not as widespread as you make them out to be. You might also want to check your sources' impartiality. A simple Google search can do wonders for information on a person's bias toward a subject.
