whats up. interesting topic. alot of good pt. counter pt. going on. personaly im on the fence. do i think the situation were in is good? no. i think it sucks. our soldiers are dying for a lie. didnt take note if anyone in here was actualy a marine but i have about 7 good friends from highschool that went into the marines. i got calls from several of them over in iraq and they would tell me how they hated it over there. they all felt like they were lied to and led into a situation where the whole truths were never revealed. being sent on recon and not being told the reasons. being sent to outposts and not knowing what the hell for. they honestly hate it. and i dont blame them. honestly they will be the first to tell you we have no buisness being in iraq on a hunt for "terrorists". and this is coming from MARINES. not Marines that sit on this side of the pond not doing anything, not Marine Nurses, Marines who have been on 2-3 tours EACH. They all know they are being lied to and hate it. the main thing is you cant blame the marines. its not their fault. they are doing what they are paid and trained to do. They get sent over and then get told to do something and they do it. what pisses us all off though is the fact everyone keeps pointing the 9-11 stick in response to why we are there when in fact Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11. they claim iraq is a war on terror. well if it is then i dont know where the hell the terror is. people always talk about sadam killing kurds, not taking into consideration that the kurds were trying to push borders into iraq (you think that if canada or mexico started pushing borders into our country we wouldnt fight back? yeah, only in a dream. look at the lousiana purchase and the war leading to the alamo. because that went peacful when we intruded in mexican territory). then i love the people who blame it on people from the muslim religion in general. first off, al quida is an extremist group, just like what we like to call in the good old US of A a CULT! And who are the people mainly pointing the fingers at this religious group you might ask? mainly the extreme right christian and catholics. But they seem to forget the spanish inquisition, the crusades and all the other bloody wars started by their religions because they thought they were right and everyone else was wrong. sure it was over 100 years ago. but as the saying goes. every dog has its day. but we ( I being catholic myself) seem to forget our darker times buy just pushing it away. moral of the story- war on terror in iraq? no. there is no war on terror in iraq, they werent a threat to us and they didnt intend to be. war on communism in iraq- yes. we decide to put our noses into other countries leadership views once again just like in vietnam. and dont get me started telling me there are no resemblances either. because thats a crock. in the words from the greatest movie that describes this war- AMERICA..... Fu** YEAH!!! ** once again, i am appreciative for what our armed forces are doing. they are doing what they are asked to do, wether or not it be from a misguided source.
I consider my self patrotic not in the way of military but in the fact that I am here to defend my turf at all costs and if that means I have to gain the right of politics to sway the rules back towards our constitutional rights then so be it. I respect the ppl who actually put their life on the line to protect our freedoms from the outside world. I'm here fighting for it from the inside.
Finally someone who has some understanding of what is going on. Merged Post: You want to see american opperison of people. Do I have to post hundreds of links and new articles to get through your head. Ok lets look at american imperalism in different countires, which almost all led to disaterous things to the people Every third world country. They are poor because western companies rip them off, and follow the western economys, America dominates ALL western economies, and as such the companies which rip off the people of the third world. SOUTH DAKOTA 1890 (-?) Troops 300 Lakota Indians massacred at Wounded Knee. ARGENTINA 1890 Troops Buenos Aires interests protected. CHILE 1891 Troops Marines clash with nationalist rebels. HAITI 1891 Troops Black revolt on Navassa defeated. IDAHO 1892 Troops Army suppresses silver miners' strike. HAWAII 1893 (-?) Naval, troops Independent kingdom overthrown, annexed. CHICAGO 1894 Troops Breaking of rail strike, 34 killed. NICARAGUA 1894 Troops Month-long occupation of Bluefields. CHINA 1894-95 Naval, troops Marines land in Sino-Japanese War KOREA 1894-96 Troops Marines kept in Seoul during war. PANAMA 1895 Troops, naval Marines land in Colombian province. NICARAGUA 1896 Troops Marines land in port of Corinto. CHINA 1898-1900 Troops Boxer Rebellion fought by foreign armies. PHILIPPINES 1898-1910 (-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, killed 600,000 Filipinos CUBA 1898-1902 (-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, still hold Navy base. PUERTO RICO 1898 (-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, occupation continues. GUAM 1898 (-?) Naval, troops Seized from Spain, still use as base. MINNESOTA 1898 (-?) Troops Army battles Chippewa at Leech Lake. NICARAGUA 1898 Troops Marines land at port of San Juan del Sur. SAMOA 1899 (-?) Troops Battle over succession to throne. NICARAGUA 1899 Troops Marines land at port of Bluefields. IDAHO 1899-1901 Troops Army occupies Coeur d'Alene mining region. OKLAHOMA 1901 Troops Army battles Creek Indian revolt. PANAMA 1901-14 Naval, troops Broke off from Colombia 1903, annexed Canal Zone 1914. HONDURAS 1903 Troops Marines intervene in revolution. DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1903-04 Troops U.S. interests protected in Revolution. KOREA 1904-05 Troops Marines land in Russo-Japanese War. CUBA 1906-09 Troops Marines land in democratic election. NICARAGUA 1907 Troops "Dollar Diplomacy" protectorate set up. HONDURAS 1907 Troops Marines land during war with Nicaragua PANAMA 1908 Troops Marines intervene in election contest. NICARAGUA 1910 Troops Marines land in Bluefields and Corinto. HONDURAS 1911 Troops U.S. interests protected in civil war. CHINA 1911-41 Naval, troops Continuous occupation with flare-ups. CUBA 1912 Troops U.S. interests protected in civil war. PANAMA 1912 Troops Marines land during heated election. HONDURAS 1912 Troops Marines protect U.S. economic interests. NICARAGUA 1912-33 Troops, bombing 10-year occupation, fought guerillas MEXICO 1913 Naval Americans evacuated during revolution. DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1914 Naval Fight with rebels over Santo Domingo. COLORADO 1914 Troops Breaking of miners' strike by Army. MEXICO 1914-18 Naval, troops Series of interventions against nationalists. HAITI 1914-34 Troops, bombing 19-year occupation after revolts. DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1916-24 Troops 8-year Marine occupation. CUBA 1917-33 Troops Military occupation, economic protectorate. WORLD WAR I 1917-18 naval, troops Ships sunk, fought Germany for 1 1/2 years. RUSSIA 1918-22 Naval, troops Five landings to fight Bolsheviks PANAMA 1918-20 Troops "Police duty" during unrest after elections. HONDURAS 1919 Troops Marines land during election campaign. YUGOSLAVIA 1919 Troops/Marines intervene for Italy against Serbs in Dalmatia. GUATEMALA 1920 Troops 2-week intervention against unionists. WEST VIRGINIA 1920-21 Troops, bombing Army intervenes against mineworkers. TURKEY 1922 Troops Fought nationalists in Smyrna. CHINA 1922-27 Naval, troops Deployment during nationalist revolt. HONDURAS 1924-25 Troops Landed twice during election strife. PANAMA 1925 Troops Marines suppress general strike. CHINA 1927-34 Troops Marines stationed throughout the country. EL SALVADOR 1932 Naval Warships send during Marti revolt. WASHINGTON DC 1932 Troops Army stops WWI vet bonus protest. WORLD WAR II 1941-45 Naval, troops, bombing, nuclear Hawaii bombed, fought Japan, Italy and Germay for 3 years; first nuclear war. DETROIT 1943 Troops Army put down Black rebellion. IRAN 1946 Nuclear threat Soviet troops told to leave north. YUGOSLAVIA 1946 Nuclear threat, naval Response to shoot-down of US plane. URUGUAY 1947 Nuclear threat Bombers deployed as show of strength. GREECE 1947-49 Command operation U.S. directs extreme-right in civil war. GERMANY 1948 Nuclear Threat Atomic-capable bombers guard Berlin Airlift. CHINA 1948-49 Troops/Marines evacuate Americans before Communist victory. PHILIPPINES 1948-54 Command operation CIA directs war against Huk Rebellion. PUERTO RICO 1950 Command operation Independence rebellion crushed in Ponce. KOREA 1951-53 (-?) Troops, naval, bombing , nuclear threats U.S./So. Korea fights China/No. Korea to stalemate; A-bomb threat in 1950, and against China in 1953. Still have bases. IRAN 1953 Command Operation CIA overthrows democracy, installs Shah. VIETNAM 1954 Nuclear threat French offered bombs to use against seige. GUATEMALA 1954 Command operation, bombing, nuclear threat CIA directs exile invasion after new gov't nationalized U.S. company lands; bombers based in Nicaragua. EGYPT 1956 Nuclear threat, troops Soviets told to keep out of Suez crisis; Marines evacuate foreigners. LEBANON l958 Troops, naval Marine occupation against rebels. IRAQ 1958 Nuclear threat Iraq warned against invading Kuwait. CHINA l958 Nuclear threat China told not to move on Taiwan isles. PANAMA 1958 Troops Flag protests erupt into confrontation. VIETNAM l960-75 Troops, naval, bombing, nuclear threats Fought South Vietnam revolt & North Vietnam; one million killed in longest U.S. war; atomic bomb threats in l968 and l969. LAOS 1962 Command operation Military buildup during guerrilla war. CUBA l961 Command operation CIA-directed exile invasion fails. GERMANY l961 Nuclear threat Alert during Berlin Wall crisis. CUBA l962 Nuclear threat, naval Blockade during missile crisis; near-war with Soviet Union. PANAMA l964 Troops Panamanians shot for urging canal's return. INDONESIA l965 Command operation Million killed in CIA-assisted army coup. DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1965-66 Troops, bombing Marines land during election campaign. GUATEMALA l966-67 Command operation Green Berets intervene against rebels. DETROIT l967 Troops Army battles Blacks, 43 killed. UNITED STATES l968 Troops After King is shot; over 21,000 soldiers in cities. CAMBODIA l969-75 Bombing, troops, naval Up to 2 million killed in decade of bombing, starvation, and political chaos. OMAN l970 Command operation U.S. directs Iranian marine invasion. LAOS l971-73 Command operation, bombing U.S. directs South Vietnamese invasion; "carpet-bombs" countryside. SOUTH DAKOTA l973 Command operation Army directs Wounded Knee siege of Lakotas. MIDEAST 1973 Nuclear threat World-wide alert during Mideast War. CHILE 1973 Command operation CIA-backed coup ousts elected marxist president. CAMBODIA l975 Troops, bombing Gas captured ship, 28 die in copter crash. ANGOLA l976-92 Command operation CIA assists South African-backed rebels. IRAN l980 Troops, nuclear threat, aborted bombing Raid to rescue Embassy hostages; 8 troops die in copter-plane crash. Soviets warned not to get involved in revolution. LIBYA l981 Naval jets Two Libyan jets shot down in maneuvers. EL SALVADOR l981-92 Command operation, troops Advisors, overflights aid anti-rebel war, soldiers briefly involved in hostage clash. NICARAGUA l981-90 Command operation, naval CIA directs exile (Contra) invasions, plants harbor mines against revolution. LEBANON l982-84 Naval, bombing, troops Marines expel PLO and back Phalangists, Navy bombs and shells Muslim positions. GRENADA l983-84 Troops, bombing Invasion four years after revolution. HONDURAS l983-89 Troops Maneuvers help build bases near borders. IRAN l984 Jets Two Iranian jets shot down over Persian Gulf. LIBYA l986 Bombing, naval Air strikes to topple nationalist gov't. BOLIVIA 1986 Troops Army assists raids on cocaine region. IRAN l987-88 Naval, bombing US intervenes on side of Iraq in war. LIBYA 1989 Naval jets Two Libyan jets shot down. VIRGIN ISLANDS 1989 Troops St. Croix Black unrest after storm. PHILIPPINES 1989 Jets Air cover provided for government against coup. PANAMA 1989 (-?) Troops, bombing Nationalist government ousted by 27,000 soldiers, leaders arrested, 2000+ killed. LIBERIA 1990 Troops Foreigners evacuated during civil war. SAUDI ARABIA 1990-91 Troops, jets Iraq countered after invading Kuwait. 540,000 troops also stationed in Oman, Qatar, Bahrain, UAE, Israel. IRAQ 1990-? Bombing, troops, naval Blockade of Iraqi and Jordanian ports, air strikes; 200,000+ killed in invasion of Iraq and Kuwait; no-fly zone over Kurdish north, Shiite south, large-scale destruction of Iraqi military. KUWAIT 1991 Naval, bombing, troops Kuwait royal family returned to throne. LOS ANGELES 1992 Troops Army, Marines deployed against anti-police uprising. SOMALIA 1992-94 Troops, naval, bombing U.S.-led United Nations occupation during civil war; raids against one Mogadishu faction. YUGOSLAVIA 1992-94 Naval NATO blockade of Serbia and Montenegro. BOSNIA 1993-? Jets, bombing No-fly zone patrolled in civil war; downed jets, bombed Serbs. HAITI 1994-? Troops, naval Blockade against military government; troops restore President Aristide to office three years after coup. ZAIRE (CONGO) 1996-97 Troops Marines at Rwandan Hutu refugee camps, in area where Congo revolution begins. LIBERIA 1997 Troops Soldiers under fire during evacuation of foreigners. ALBANIA 1997 Troops Soldiers under fire during evacuation of foreigners. SUDAN 1998 Missiles Attack on pharmaceutical plant alleged to be "terrorist" nerve gas plant. AFGHANISTAN 1998 Missiles Attack on former CIA training camps used by Islamic fundamentalist groups alleged to have attacked embassies. IRAQ 1998-? Bombing, Missiles Four days of intensive air strikes after weapons inspectors allege Iraqi obstructions. YUGOSLAVIA 1999 Bombing, Missiles Heavy NATO air strikes after Serbia declines to withdraw from Kosovo. NATO occupation of Kosovo. YEMEN 2000 Naval USS Cole bombed. MACEDONIA 2001 Troops NATO forces deployed to move and disarm Albanian rebels. UNITED STATES 2001 Jets, naval Reaction to hijacker attacks on New York, DC AFGHANISTAN 2001-? Troops, bombing, missiles Massive U.S. mobilization to overthrow Taliban, hunt Al Qaeda fighters, install Karzai regime. Forces also engaged in neighboring Pakistan. YEMEN 2002 Missiles Predator drone missile attack on Al Qaeda, including a US citizen. PHILIPPINES 2002 Troops, naval Training mission for Philippine military fighting Muslim Abu Sayyaf rebels evolves into US combat missions in Sulu Archipelago next to Mindanao. COLOMBIA 2003-? Troops US special forces sent to rebel zone to back up Colombian military protecting oil pipeline. IRAQ 2003-? Troops, naval, bombing, missiles Second Gulf War launched for "regime change" in Baghdad. US, joined by UK and Australia, attacks from Kuwait, other Gulf states, and European and US bases. Please look everyone one of these up. I took it from a site my comrade gave me.
You do realize that most of those are called WARS, right? You do realize that people DIE in WARS? That was an operation to retrieve a US-flag ship that was HIJACKED. Unfortunate that the Khmer Rouge had to hijack it, otherwise we wouldn't have had to go into that island, tear gas the ship so we can take it down, and generally have an invasion to get OUR sailors back. By the way, this was an operation outside of war. Columbia? You do realize that troops are down there as advisors to stop the flow of drugs, right? Quick question: what country ARE you from? Just curious, because for each of those, unless you're in the Vatican or Switzerland, I can pull up an equally-long if not longer list. More to come, have to go right now.
Hmm, people don't udnerstand the meaning of freedom. None of us are free. You're only free if you can walk down the street and not be shot, stabbed, raped or kidnapped. We are all at risk to these things. We are in a time where other people's pseudo-freedom takes away our rights to be free. That man had every right to say shut up. The war may not be under the best of terms, but it's a war against those who are trying to steal any freedom we might have. The Marine probably harbours deep regrets that he ended another's life, and by insinuating that he did the wrong thing removes any justification that he had.
I found your little list using google. Did you even READ the site or did you just google "US military in other countries?" You do realize that "intervention" is NOT the same as, oh, say gassing a few Kurds up north, as your previous leader did. There's a difference between those two terms. Hell, it even lists a bombing of our ship, the USS Cole (which docked in a port in Yemen and was ALLOWED to do so by the Yemeni government) as an "intervention." But that's not even the point. Did you read the report at the bottom of the page? If not, I can sum it up in the following quote: That's about it. The paper provides no sources yet claims that the US "killed 200,000 civilians" in the first Iraq war. Excuse me? He's claiming genocide and cites no source? This coming from a college professor? I'm in college and they don't even GRADE research papers if they don't cite sources. The paper goes on to cite interventions in Central America as genocide and oppression, supporting puppet regimes etc. Excuse me? El Salvador/Nicuragua were in a bit of a fight over their ----democratic/----communist governments. I'll give you three guesses as to the US's foriegn policy towards communism. It also states that Panama was to topple a "freely-elected government." Excuse me? Noriega was: - A criminal - Engaged in drug trade - Sponsoring attacks on US servicemen in the canal zone, which was, up until recently, part of the United States You may have forgotten about a guy named Kurt Muse. Muse had a little radio transmitter, which brodcasted anti-Noriega messages. He was accused of being a CIA spy, arrested, tortured, placed in prison, threatened with execution, and had a guy with a gun next to him right up until special forces came running through the door and shot the gunman. Kurt Muse was a civilian, living in the Canal Zone at the time, who didn't agree with Noriega's views. Definately "oppression" there. The FBI, along with many local SWAT (police) teams, deployed armed SWAT/HRT members to St. Croix (a part of the US) in 1989 after a hurricane. Oppression? Try stopping the looting after the hurricane. It cites the deployment of armed police/FBI to a PART OF THE UNITED STATES as "oppression." It cites Lebanon as "oppression." The US Marines, except for the Embassy Security guys, were there as peacekeepers, much as UNFIL is there today. They weren't even allowed to carry loaded weapons. It says that we "ousted the PLO and supported Christian militias?" Sounds to me like he's claiming we did a bit of a war on Islam here. The US backed neither of them, and shot at both of them when both of them attacked the Marines. This is, of course, after the embassy and the barracks were truck-bombed and the Marines at the beach were mortared day after day while sitting there, doing nothing. It states an operation to rescue hostages, the Iran affair in 1980, as "oppression." I agree. Rescuing hostages who were taken at the US embassy is "oppression." It also cites the SS Mayagues incident of 1975 as an "intervention." That operation was to retrieve a hijacked merchant ship. We tear-gassed the ship so we could take it down without shots being fired. Would you rather have had us go in, guns blazing, while killing all the Cambodians inside (the hostages were actually in mainland Cambodia)? We released the Cambodians on the ship before we even got our own hostages back. That's not to mention the choppers that were shot down while bringing the Marines to the ship/island that it was docked at. We can go deeper. It cites the US's involvement in WWII as "out of fear of a German invasion." Nevermind the fact that the Japanese attacked us and the Germans declared war on us a few days later. We were AT WAR, by both sides' views, as of 7 December 1941 (Japan) and a few days later (Germany). Definately oppression. You do realize that, until the attack, the US kept a strict-isolationist policy, right? It claims that troops have been sent to install governments, like the Kuwait government in 1991. You do realize that your Iraqis happened to oust the government through military force, right? You also realize that the US wasn't allowed to re-take Kuwait City (which is when the resistance crumbled - Iraqis didn't fight because there was no ground fighting until the push for the city; it was done by air); the Kuwaitis, with a small number of advisors, re-took the city. I'm not talking about the 500K troops on the Arabian peninsula. I'm talking about the re-taking of Kuwait City. It also claims several "nuclear threats," including many against the USSR during the Cold War. What it doesn't state is the fact that the USSR had quite a few missiles aimed at us with nukes attached. I can see nuclear threats as quite a viable option. Don't you? --- I don't deny that US troops have been in quite a few places around the world. I do, however, dismiss the calls of "genocide" that this page happens to state because A) he cites no sources and B) it's biased beyond all belief. Get me a REAL source, something that AT LEAST cites other OFFICIAL sources for its claims of "genocide" and "oppression."
Throw me in the 5-10% percent as well. I've had to deal with this issue of the conflict in Iraq a lot in all my forums. This is probably the best one I've seen so far because there are actually people here who know what they are talking about for a chance (notice I didn't say everyone though). The most common theme though is that people from foreign countries pretty much hate our guts, and after being involved in many discussions I think the best response is basically, "So? Why should I care about your opinion?" Arrogant? Yes. Ballsy? Probably. But I can almost guarantee that no matter what points we make about Iraq, no matter what we say, Americans are "wrong", "evil", yadda yadda yadda. I mean to post hundreds of links to show how terrible Americans are. Why are people even on this site discussing this issue when it clear that their views are biased towards the USA?
I find wars more of an ego boost for presidents and leaders. Of course there will always be conflict but war is just over the board. For leaders was is like a game, they even have rules, which I think is complete BS.
Your statement is complete bull----. Where would we be without wars ? Just take a recent example, World war 2. What would have happened if the allied countries didn't go to war ? Europe would have been under Hitlers command and he would have slaughtered even more people then he already did. The allied countries went to war with Hitler. It was the only option, it wasn't an ego boost. If it wasn't for World War 2, you probably wouldn't have the freedom to make such a stupid remark. Wars are necessary in some cases, and NOBODY can deny that.
