So, the killing expense of thousands of innocent lives that could of been saved, just to kill even more, and in the end, a destruction of a country, starvation of another, and overall desparity for twenty years. Yup, that sure was a good decision... You can never understand what would have happend if we did not enter the war. Italy and Germany would of faught over land, etc... Now, about your second paragraph, i would not kill thousands of innocent people just to make a quick buck. That is inhumane. You said you are tired of these theories? How much proof do you want to call it a conspiracy and not a theory?
We didn't kill our own people, Osama Bin Laden did. Destruction of a country? I dunno if you have been over to Iraq in a while, but, it has always been a piece of crap. Right now we are rebuilding Iraq. We aren't causing starvation in other countries. Countries where people are startving have been like that since the begining. Yeah it was a good decision. And you still cannot show proof from a reliable source that he did know about it before hand. We aren't in a war over oil. We are getting oil while we are over there. We aren't killing thousands of innocent people, unless by 'we' you mean Iraq. Iran, and Afghanastan. I want creditable proof. Proof that does not come from an anti-american living out in Europe or the middle East. Proof that can be PROVEN correct, not quotes or interviews that were made up to stir up problems in America.
now that im back, and back to the source and credentials arguement ( that was never really rebutted to ): your sources are: -some random video site that on it says it was an INSURGENT bus -aljezeera, because we all know that to be a credible source. -an article by some "cobaltblue". who im sure we have all heard of. ya. -something from the 'SHADOW' reporters. credentials man! credentials! the random video site hosts whatever is given it. its own subtitle contradicts you. there is no location given on the video. aljezeera is a very well known insurgent sympathizer, so good luck getting an unbiased view from them. noone has ever heard of cobaltblue. most people havnt heard of me. if i were to start making websites that said the government was really run by martians would that make it real? and 'SHADOW' reporters. strange how even the NAME makes them sound cheesey. not only that but the entire article is a bit like yours, no proof. how can this be taken as evidence? for as long as there has been government there have been conspiracy theories. virtually none of these have been real. all of a sudden you write 5 pages ( with no backing ) and show it as fact! what makes your arguement better than the hobo on the street who says the government got him fired, burned down his house, made his wife leave him and take all his money, and got him addicted to crack! so what if MSNBC is paid by the government. you said nothing about BBC, ABC, CNN..... you have the burden of proof. you are proving nothing, you are throwing up unverifiable sources as a smokescreen. do you think we are blind? some of us actually read those articles. iv said it before, show me something from some nationaly syndicated news company. ANYTHING. without that, there is ZERO credibility in your arguements. and faced with these arguements, you plow onward with basless ideas. stop beating around the bush! anwser me directly! i begin to question your motives.
You know what? You're right. I have been lazy and not offering any of my legitimate sources. So here they come. You all know about Operation Northwoods? U.S. Military wanting to provoke a war with cuba. Source How about United States in Iraq with carbombs? Source And as to FDR knowing about Pearl Harbor? Day of Deceit: The Truth about FDR and Pearl Harbor a nonfiction book. Payne Stewart's plane had military jets to follow it, because it lost control to the FAA Source So, how about Egypt warning us about the attacks BEFORE they happend? Source Have you ever heard of a taliban prisoner massacre, made by the U.S. ? Read Up. So we killed a minimum of 3,800 innocent Afghani old men, women, and children. Source Aren't we nice? So, we have Taliban members, but instead, we AIR lift them out of their country to safety? Source Did I forget anything?
Pearl Harbor was what we needed to pull our country togther regardless of whether we knew it was comming or not. Think of the countless lives that could have been saved by defeating the Axis Powers and avoiding futher loss of life on both sides. The Americans turned the war around. Had we waited until the Axis controlled all of Europe then there would have been more loss of life due to attacks on both countries. Millions more people could have been victimized by the holocost if the war went on for a few more years then it did. The loss of 3,000 lives could have saved in the longrun millions more. That is why those men are heros; their noble sacrifices could have helped save countless more innocent lives. Pearl Harbor was a regretable, but necessary evil to unite America to help the Allies in defeating the Axis powers. This, of course is all speculation just as is all of your allagations and conspiracy theories.
Yes, but he could of atleast forewarned the base commander, so less lives would have been destroyed. We could have had a treaty with them. We had so many more choices, than just let those 2,300 lives lost on that day suffer. If you were at that base, playing cards, or having a boxing match, or anything really, and all of a sudden japanese bombs are flying overhead, bombing you. You of course would have wanted every bit of help. I mean, it's not like a single life doesn't matter. We lose 1 american, and it is on the news everywhere. We kill 100,000 innocent lives, we don't even hear about it once. Where is the equality in that?
First, it was Pakistan with the airplanes not us. Second, Carbomb story not reliable source. Third, I could keep listing but I am lazy. In reaility you are dumb and just trying to get people rilled up. Many believe that this technology can also be used to override the manual, or auto control of a commercial airliner, and perhaps could have been used on 9/11. Sure gimmie some proof on that and I will believe. You are the one trying to manipulate us so just stfu and get off these forums. BTW, I don;t care if you say don;t flame because you are a taco and I will keep posting if edited until banned.
Oh well, it happened. Anyway, we can't really do anything about it now. The ----ty part about all of this, is that it affects the entire world.
yeah in that car bomb story, i guess you didn't read the whole thing. "However, Realityzone.com has pointed out that since the source is a Russian news agency, it is possible the above “may be disinformation.” right out of the artical as for the FDR book -- "The author made a thorough search of many repositories and contacted numerous persons to justify his long held belief that President Roosevelt actively fomented war with Japan as a pretext to aid Britain in its fight with Hitler. The book further alleges that through conspiracies continuing today FDR not only kept the Hawaiian commanders from obtaining information on the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor but ordered or had ordered actions that prevented those commanders from discovering the attacking force and adequately defending Pearl Harbor. In the book, FDR's co-conspirators include General Marshall, Admirals Stark, Ingersoll, Captain Turner and Commander McCollum and by implication Admiral Noyes, Captain Redman, Commander Rochefort and many others even though these persons are long dead and cannot defend themselves. The book misinterprets several new documents including then Lt. Cmdr McCollum's response to the enactment of the Tripartite Pact and two well established documents of the Pearl Harbor arena. For the first time, it claims one well known message was sent part in code with the location Hitokappu Wan (the sailing port of the Pearl Harbor attack force) being sent in the clear within the message even though its decrypt clearly shows JN-25B code was used and such an anomoly in the super encipherment JN-25B system is absurd and unprecidented. No authority for such claim is provided. Next, the book implies the famous message "Climb Mt. Niitaka 1208" was sent in the clear from one Japanese historian's report while Yamamoto's biographer says it was encoded in a five numeral code and the decrypt in the National Archives clearly has the code designation JN-25B on the face of the document. The book misleads the uninitiated reader by lumping the relatively simple JN-25A code and cipher system that took 14 months to read with the much more complicated JN-25B system together as "Code Book D." Thus, the final successes of JN-25A are imputed to JN-25B even though the first significant reported decrypt of the latter much more complicated code and cipher system was in early 1942. The book omits the fact that the November and December 1941 raw intercepted messages from Corregidor, Guam and Hawaii on which so much is relied were actually enroute to Washington DC by ship and rail on 7 December 1941 and thus were not decrypted until 1945-46 and the most promising of those decrypts were translated in 1946-47 and are available in the National Archives today. Also not discussed is the fact that Station Hypo in Hawaii under Rochefort was only permitted to work on the unproductive Admiral's code system before Pearl Harbor and was not given the go ahead to work on JN-25B until a week or so after the attack. It is claimed that unkown censors are holding back vital decrypts in the National Archives or elsewhere because certain Station Message Serial (SMS) numbers and original versions of messages appearing on Japanese naval broadcasts are missing. However, the so called "missing" messages can be attributed to the fact that less than 60 percent of Japanese naval messages were intercepted and many were originally sent by land-line, cable or visual means when tied up at docks or anchored in a Japanese harbor. To the book's credit it does not repeat the old revisionist conspiracy theory that the Winds Execute message was received and covered up. However, it does regurgitate the old story of Seaman Robert D. Ogg's report of commercial operators hearing transmissions from the North Pacific. However, when deposed by Commander Newman, Ogg was not sure whether such transmissions were Japanese or Russian. Similar hearsay reports by dead Dutch cryptographers of signals in the North Pacific are repeated although now the book says they came from the Kuriles. Nevertheless, this book will sell well among Roosevelt haters, many Admiral Kimmel and General Short supporters as well as dedicated revisionist conspiracy theorists." as for the NY times artical about Egypt warning us about Al Qaedas plan to kill an american target- so what? how does that have to do with an american conspiracy?
Why are you so tough man? http://www.freemarketnews.com/WorldNews.asp?nid=1326 Have you ever read the freemarketnews? It is an independent news site, for all around the world. It is no BBC news, but it is up there. Just because you do not want to believe what it is telling you, is not my fault. And having the NY Times telling the article bout Egypt, tells us that when the Bush Administration they had no foreknowledge about it, was a lie. If they can lie once, who says the can't lie again? Everything in the first post is factural, if you do not believe me, then stop writing ignorant posts as to why you thinkt he US Government to be so great. Of course there are going to be hard to find evidence from some unreliable credientials. But, they are still factual, at least some of it. And your quote does not say that the book is wrong in any way. It just questions it. Which it is supposed to make you do. If you have the time to read the book, go ahead and do so. I myself have read it, and researched upon it within different sources, such as going to the National Library (I live in D.C.) So, please copy and paste irrevelant information some more. I am actually amazed and proud that you actualyl question things this much. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. Meaning, there are 3 types of people. The first group of people make every stand they can to discredit theories. The second group may or may not believe it, but do whatever they can to make sure the information 'dissapears'. And the third group of people sit back, take a deep breath and say to themselves 'I'm not surprised'
You will never know the "real" news in the world. Everyone has a bias, it's true. Just wait for ---- to happen, if you don't like what you're seeing on our oh so wonderful earth go out and start some organization. The most valuable thing you can give to other people is your time. Then again, if you did try to speak out the Bush would silence you
On the US car-bombing artical, did you not see the quote I posted? The artical itself said that the information might not have truth in it. The Egypt artical is about how Egypt warned the US about how Al Qaeda was planning to assinate a Government official; it has nothing to do with the attacks on the US. I don't care enough to read the book. Unlike some people, I move on with my life, instead of complaining about things that happened before I was born. And why don't you go find information supporting the governments side? Instead of trying to brainwash the children on this forum, you should make a mini-debate, with points for each side of the case. In the end, one or two conspiracies that cannot even be proven isn't going to turn me into an anti-american, or even question the governments power. There is no way in hell the President would get away with something so huge. That is why we have the three branches of Government -- to ensure that each branch has equal power and that no branch becomes too powerful. There is too many people working with the President where is would somehow slip enough for him to go on trial.
