Part Two</span> September 11th, 2001 “Naturally the common people do not want war... But after all it is the leaders of that country that determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a Fascist Dictatorship, or a parliament, or a Communist Dictatorship. All you have to do, is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to danger. It works the Same in any country.” --- Herman Gofring (One of Hitler's Top Men) during the Nuremberg trials. The Administration, and media stories concerning the actual hijackings is this: On the morning of September 11th, 2001, 19 radical Islamic fundamentalists hijacked 4 commercial airliners, the hijackers used paper cutters to overwhelm and kill the 8 pilots and to control the 266 passengers, and flight attendants. The two flights that took off from Boston, Flight 11 and 175, were redirected to New York, where they were crashed into the world trade center buildings. The World Trade Center buildings caught on fire, causing the trusses to soften, and expand, and both WTC buildings 1 and 2, came down. The flight that took off from Newark, Flight 93, flew all the way out to Ohio, and then circled back towards Washington D.C. During this flight, several passengers made phone calls from the plane. A number of the passengers made an unsuccessful attempt to regain control of the plane, and during the struggle, the plane crashed in central Pennsylvania. The now famous last words of Todd Beamer, one of the passengers of Flight 93, were “Let's Roll!” The fourth flight, Flight 77, took off from Washington D.C., flew across Virginia, West Virginia, and got to Ohio, turned around, and flew back to Washington D.C., where it slammed into the Pentagon. This is the story that a vast majority of Americans have repeatedly told and believe. The following list of objective facts, worthy of questions and valuable insights into this segment of 9/11 events, are essential to making good decisions as to what really happened. 1.Of the eight pilots on the four flights, six had military experience, and were considered men who could take care of themselves. Is it possible that all eight had been overwhelmed by hijackers who had been using paper cutters? Further, is it possible, that none of the eight pilots could do any evasive maneuvers or send out any alerts to the FAA? Yes, these things are possible, but they are not probable. 2.Two supposed pilots of hijacked flight 77, Khalid al-Mihdhar and Salem al-Hazmi. This is the flight that disappeared over Ohio, came back and preformed an extreme spiral maneuver, leveled off, and hit the Pentagon. Flight attendant, Rick Garza, at Sorbi's Flying Club, had this to say about our ace pilots “It was like Dumb and Dumber, I mean, they were clueless. It was clear to me, that they were not going to make it as pilots.” 3.Flying giant commercial airliners is not like driving a golf cart, there are significant skills, one has to learn. First, the pilots who were not from this country, would have to fly by sight for several hundred miles. Secondly, the pilots on flight 175 and 77, were said to have brought the planes down from 30,000 feet, preformed fast and tight 287 degree twists, and hit their targets with bullseye precision, all by hand. Give me a break! A commercial airliner, creates 1.5 to 2 times the normal gravity weight when it turns. With turns at this altitude, with this speed, and this degree of tightness, the plane would be pulling 6 to 7 times the normal gravity. According to experienced commercial pilots, this maneuvers would be virtually impossible, for any but the most advanced pilots to accomplish. 4.Very few people are aware that The Telegraph, a paper out of New Hampshire, reported that flight 177 and flight 11 crossed paths, at the same moment directly above the Stuart International Airport in New York. What a coincidence! One of the controllers of this facility, is also supposedly to be also the controller of the Egypt Air Flight 990, that crashed in 1999. When the pilot supposedly committed suicide? Interesting. 5.It must also be noted that the FAA has not released flight path information or the full voice communications between the planes, and the FAA. There are two black boxes on each large airliner, and these boxes are built to withstand major crashes. Thus, it is a bit strange, that the FAA says most of the information on all 8 black boxes of these flights were destroyed? But wait! Then they found some! But, they only shared the last 5 minutes with the families of the flights, and not to anyone else? Few Americans are aware of a program called: “Global Hawk” with this technology, flying drones, which look very similar to commercial planes, can be maneuvered with great precision. Many believe that this technology can also be used to override the manual, or auto control of a commercial airliner, and perhaps could have been used on 9/11. 6.The official story is, on flight United 93, took off from New Jersey, was hijacked, and flew out to Ohio, where it turned around, and headed back towards Washington D.C. Supposedly, the passengers made several calls to loved ones, and Scott Beamer and others, made an attempt to take back control of the plane. During the fight, the plane crashed. The problem with this story is that the plane did not crash because of a fight. The plane was shot down (opposed to Loose Change's theory where it says it landed in Ohio [this was disproved]). Here are the facts. A. The debris was scattered over an 8 mile radius B. The debris was blown into tiny pieces. C. Witnesses in the area, reported hearing a loud explosion while the plane was in the air, and seeing military jets. 7.Several years ago, professional golfer Payne Stewart, was flying with some friends in a small private jet, taking off in Dallas. Within a short period of time after take off, there was a malfunction in the plane. The pilots and passengers passed out, and lost contact with the FAA. Within 18 minutes, NORAD had scrambled an F-16 to fly next to this plane. Within 22 minutes, there were four F-16's flying with this disabled plane. This is all standard, operational procedure (SOP). NORAD's central command quarters are in Cheyenne Mountains, Colorado. They have the highest quality tracking technology in the world, and it is their responsibility to monitor the skies over America, and to protect America from missiles and planes. That is their job. In contrast, no F-16's or other planes were scrambled in time for flight 11, or 175 that took off from Boston. Even though, there were 36 minutes, where the FAA knew there was a hijacking, with no planes scrambled to protect New York. The case with Flight 77 is even more alarming, as it was in the air for over 43 minutes with full knowledge it was aimed at the White House, The Capital, or the Pentagon. Andrews Air Force Base, is only minutes away, and not one plane was sent up. And no planes were scrambled from the Langley Air Force Base until AFTER the attack. There are several military bases in the area with full capability and responsibility to protect the Capital-yet nothing was done. It appears that the <span style=\'color:green\'>order was given by NORAD to STAND DOWN. So, I end with another quote. “None are more helplessly enslaved than those who think they are free” --- Goethe. The Destruction of the World Trade Center Complex. The whole world saw it. Those jets flew into the sky scrapers. There were enormous explosions, and the fires brought the buildings down. We all saw it with our own eyes. Everybody knows it. I have heard this, or similar refrains from numerous people as they look at you with this incredulous gaze that someone would even doubt that it happened as explained on the T.V. However, there is more to this story than meets the eye. Especially the eye that has been exposed to the filter of corporate television. 1.Construction on the World Trade Center's 1 and 2, the north and south towers, was commenced on September 11th, 1971. At 1350 feet, they were one of the tallest and famous buildings on earth. One fact that most people did not know, is that they were engineered and built so well, that they were over engineered to withstand major storms and large hits from large airliners. They were built with 47 enormous interior steel core columns along with 236 exterior large columns that were welded and bolted together by steel plates. Further, there were steel trusses which criss-crossed making a mesh connecting every other exterior column. Plus, there were diagonal bracing, and steel rods connecting the trusses. There were also corrugated pans with poured concrete on every floor and all of this was anchored in a very deep and heavy foundation. 2.The buildings were architecturally designed to absorb energy and to sway by storms. According to witnesses who were inside the buildings where the planes made contact, the towers briefly swayed for seconds, as intended. Other witnesses in the area, said that the noise, and the blast were significant, but the tremor felt, at the time of contact, was minimal. 3.FACT: No steel structured building, in New York, The United States, even in the world, has ever fallen, or collapsed due to fire. In the last hundred years, literally dozens of steel buildings were caught on fire and burned for long periods of time, and have not come down. In contrary, both the twin towers burned for less than 2 hours each, burning concrete, carpet, furniture, etc.. giving off a black smoke, meaning that the fire was burning inefficiently, meaning the fire was a relative cold fire. 4.FACTS: Steel melts at 2700 degrees Fahrenheit. Jet Fuel, when mixed with precise proportions with air, will burn briefly at 1800 degrees Fahrenheit. Because of the debris, carpeting, furniture, Sheetrock, concrete, aluminum, etc... and lack of oxygen, the fire at the World Trade Centers probably burned between 1200 and 1500 degrees Fahrenheit. 5.It must also be remembered that, a significant proportion of the fuel, exploded outside of the buildings. The exterior columns were exposed to the air on 3 sides, and would dissipate heat, at a fast rate, and the beams and columns were coated with fire proofing materials. 6.The official story is, that they came down, at point of contact, because the intensity of the fires caused the trusses to push out the columns, yet when one views the hole created in the north tower by the plane. () There are only relatively small fires, and the heat must not be excessive because you can see people standing out and looking by the opening. 7.The top section of the South Tower began to tilt at approximately 9:59 AM. At this moment, a large cloud of gray dust dust suddenly puffed out of the building. The 35 stories of the top section, continued to tilt at 23 degrees past vertical. At this point, the tower was off the edge of the base by 65 feet. In frame by frame pictures, one can see the concentric and uniforming gray cloud rapidly expand to engulf the building. As this was happening, one can see debris being blown away from the building by an extremely large blast. The over hanging, upper section of the building, was mysteriously shrouded and never seen again. Then the whole building came straight down. With an incredible fast, 10.4 seconds, the tower was reduced to a pile of pulverized remains. Government story, is that this building experienced a compression, or pancake demolition caused by weakened trusses and weight from above. At first, this explanation sounds plausible. Especially because this is what the television reports have told us time and time again. However, common sense would indicate that the center of gravity of the top section was not centered over the lower section. Thus, if there was a pancake demolition, it would not be center, because the center of gravity would be off-center. Secondly, the severed top section that was tilting over the edge would fall somewhat independently. Third, this section would fall at a faster rate than the anchored lower section, because it would not meet the resistance of the lower intact section. Fourth, these sections would break into pieces, they would not pulverize. None of these four things happened! 8.The complete demolition of the north tower at 10:29 AM took only 8.1 seconds. The north tower came neatly down upon itself, and it's remains were equally powdered. 9.Facts are very stubborn things, according to the law of falling bodies, which states that if there is any resistance to a falling body, then it's resistance would slow down the falling body. Make sense? Good. In the case of the World Trade Centers, north and south, we know that the towers, were 1350 feet tall. Thus, you would have the equation (1350 = 32.16/2 x seconds squared. This works out to 9.126 seconds as the fastest time, these buildings could come down. These towers came down in 10.4 seconds and 8.1 seconds. Additionally, there were resistance, and plenty of it (massive lower section with interior and exterior columns and thousands of steel trusses. THIS DEFIES GRAVITY! Thus, either Galileo's law of falling bodies is inaccurate, and every single scientist in the whole world is wrong, and has been for the past hundred years, or something unnatural (explosives) sped it up. 10.Remember that huge gray cloud that blasted down upon those running away from the towers? () What was that stuff? It was cement and other materials that had been crystallized! Could the blast from jet fuel create this crystallization? No, because at full blast, jet fuel only expands at 208 feet a second. Could a compression demolition do this? No, there is not enough latent-- the cement would of cracked and broke, and would not have been pulverized. The only way the molecular composition of these materials could be so scrambled, is if there were small scale, nuclear detonations, or high-tech explosives. Since there are no unusually radiation activity, they can only assume it was high-tech explosives that caused this crystallization. Hight-tech explosives such as RDX or C-4, can expand at over 1000 feet per second, and create extremely hot temperatures. Modern explosives could cause the crystallization of the building materials, that would create a vacuum that would pull down the building at a faster rate than normal speed, and leave a residue of extremely high temperatures. 11.FEMA put this very short and fast explanation, as to the collapse of the north and south towers. “Expansion of floor slabs and framing, results in outward deflection of columns, and potential overload.” From this expert opinion, the Administration, and the media have aggressively promoted the “pancake theory” Which clams, the floor trusses expanded, which caused the columns to buckle, the joints to break, the floors then compressed upon themselves. However, an objective observer would consider these definite points. A. Never before has any steel frame building come down due to a fire, besides the fact that those at the World Trade Centers burned very shortly and have very cool fires. B. For the world trade centers to react in this way, literally thousands of joints would have had to snap at the precise instant. Remember these buildings were built to withstand these types of things, and were coated with fire protective materials. C. The 'Pancake Theory' would not have been able to come down in such high speeds. D. A pancake collapse would not have had enough latent energy to cause the cement and other substances to crystallize. E. A pancake collapse would not have created the astonishing heat that were recorded and monitored for weeks after the collapse. 12.On September 16th, 5 days after the attack, NASA flew a plane over the site, to create measurements and to create a thermal surface map. In this period of time, hundreds of truckloads of debris had been already carried off. And firemen have sprayed millions of gallons of water, on the smoking rubble. The results show, that there were several hot spots with temperatures of over 1000 Fahrenheit on the surface. The spot where the south tower stood, it was over 1377 degrees. Most of us noticed that the area continued to smoke for weeks! Since neither tons of jet fuel, nor a compression demolition have the potential amount of heat, much less to continue to have this heat, even a simple man would have to knowledge to know that there were other devices used inside the building. Christopher Bollyn from the American Free Press, also stated that the steel columns SEVENTY FEET UNDERGROUND had melted. That would mean temperatures would have had to exceed 2700 degrees. HELLO!? Is anybody in the predominate media, Government, or law enforcement listening? 13.When the south tower had been hit, smoke came out of world trade center with very hot fires, which burned for HOURS, before being put out. Why did this building not collapse like 1, 2, and 7? 14.The facts surrounding building number 7, a 47 story building, are even more bizarre. The building was build on a major large substation. Further, the building owner, allowed people to place large diesel fuel tanks with the capacity of over 42,000 gallons. The people who had owned this bunker were Mayor Giuliani, who made a 13 million dollar CONTROL bunker. The CIA, the Department of Defense, and the Secret Service, also had owned part of the building. Thirdly, the world trade center was not reported to be on fire until 3:00 PM, after both buildings had collapsed, by more than 5 hours! The building had been burning for less than 3 hours, and the fires were very cool fires, but somehow this building came directly down, once again in less time than Galileo's Law of Falling Bodies. Did you know, Larry A. Silverstein (the owner of the building in it's entirety) had confessed to a controlled demolition on the building on PBS? Once again, please use this information only to help yourself and do not start a flame war. If you have read this far, I greatly appreciate it. You can do as you wish with the information I have given you.
Fire wasn't the only factor that brought the buildings down, there were hit by planes. The steal wouldn't of had to melt for the building to become structurally week, all that would of been needed was for the steal to weaken and bucle on itslef. The buildings were poorly built, they never followed 'proper' building rules and much of the WTC was rushed.
Here's my thoughts on the basic, but complex question "Is our Government Corrupt"; The answer is not so black and white as it may seem. I beleive that Yes the U.S. has to many corrupt poloticians, but also it has many who are not corrupt. In order to distinguish corruption from something else it must be clearly defined, and here I will use my own definition "Corruption is the extortion of governmental powers by a single person or group for personal gain". Now under this definition it seems that any elected member of a certain political party would be corrupt scince they will always act in favor of ther personal party affiliation, but does this mean that by acting in such away that they were extorting the Grovernment? I beleive not. I beleive that in a democracy an official is elected by the people to represent their ideas, and therefore if the polotician only promotes the ideals of a certain poloticial party then it is what the people want because they voted for he/she and that nulls polotical party favor as being corruption because carrying out what the people want is not distortion. But don't be mistaken I definatley beleive that many poloticians are corrupt, but why? A good explanation is offered by a quote from Lord Acton: Using this quote it is easy to see that corruption may take form at the highest level of office, and in the U.S. government that is the Presidency. Before I state my personal opinions I would like to share that I'am an Independant and therefore am not registered to a certain political party, and I do not support Pres. Bush but i will try to be as unbias as possible. President Bush has made many choices and some appear to be corrupt, but is he corrupt? It is impossible to know for sure unless you are a very close personal friend or someone with inside information, but we can try to make as accurate an estimate as possible based on the information we do have. Do I beleive that the U.S. government was behind the 9/11 attacks? Definatley not, I do see President Bush as a man with some prinicpal, and i don't beleive he planned or knew without fault that the 9/11 attacks we going to occur. I beleive he may have made a bad choice's on national security and neglected information leading up to 9/11, but he was not a collaborator. I don't see President Bush, the leader of the American people, allowing the death of thousands of innocent American men, women, and children. But, I do think the Hegelian Principal can be put against Bush on the same subjest, but at a different time. I beleive that it is very possible that Bush purposefully lied to the American people when he said that "beyond daout Iraq has WMD's". Facts show that the army entered Iraq and took the oil fields as a primary objective, before toppling the governtment. Once he had control of Iraq Bush then gave control of much of the Iraqi oil to Haliburton Co. a company that he and Cheney held high positions in. This definatley fits our description of Corruption, but it's possible that Bush really did beleive that there were WMD's in Iraq and was trying to protect the American people. So is Bush corrupt? I beleive that he has made corrupt choices, but holds principals, and for every corrupt act he has made he has made a seemingly non-corrupt act ten times more. Therefore i would place Bush in a 'grey' area of "occasionally" corrupt. -Jeff
I understand how you would not want to have their own President to purposefully kill thousands of his own people. But as you have seen before, he does have MANY ties to those he suspected of causing the buildings to collapse. Such as when he made his first oil industry, his first investor? Bin Laden's brother. Our Government even supported Al Qaeda, and trained everyone in it. It's just unbelieveable how closely the facts tie in. This is an extremely hard pill to swallow. I am not a democratic, I am not a republican. Think about the word conspiracy. What is the word you think about? Theory? Because that is what we have been told by the massive media about a Conspiracy Theory. But when does it not become a theory? Once you have a single piece of evidence, no matter how flimsey it is, you now have a conspiracy. A very weak one, but it still exists, and the more evidence you find, the less of a theory it is, and the more of a conspiracy it becomes. Merged Post: The complete demolition of the north tower at 10:29 AM took only 8.1 seconds. The north tower came neatly down upon itself, and it's remains were equally powdered. Facts are very stubborn things, according to the law of falling bodies, which states that if there is any resistance to a falling body, then it's resistance would slow down the falling body. Make sense? Good. In the case of the World Trade Centers, north and south, we know that the towers, were 1350 feet tall. Thus, you would have the equation (1350 = 32.16/2 x seconds squared. This works out to 9.126 seconds as the fastest time, these buildings could come down. These towers came down in 10.4 seconds and 8.1 seconds. Additionally, there were resistance, and plenty of it (massive lower section with interior and exterior columns and thousands of steel trusses. THIS DEFIES GRAVITY! Thus, either Galileo's law of falling bodies is inaccurate, and every single scientist in the whole world is wrong, and has been for the past hundred years, or something unnatural (explosives) sped it up. Remember that huge gray cloud that blasted down upon those running away from the towers? (http://www.saunalahti.fi/wtc2001/w5.jpg) What was that stuff? It was cement and other materials that had been crystallized! Could the blast from jet fuel create this crystallization? No, because at full blast, jet fuel only expands at 208 feet a second. Could a compression demolition do this? No, there is not enough latent-- the cement would of cracked and broke, and would not have been pulverized. The only way the molecular composition of these materials could be so scrambled, is if there were small scale, nuclear detonations, or high-tech explosives. Since there are no unusually radiation activity, they can only assume it was high-tech explosives that caused this crystallization. Hight-tech explosives such as RDX or C-4, can expand at over 1000 feet per second, and create extremely hot temperatures. Modern explosives could cause the crystallization of the building materials, that would create a vacuum that would pull down the building at a faster rate than normal speed, and leave a residue of extremely high temperatures. FEMA put this very short and fast explanation, as to the collapse of the north and south towers. “Expansion of floor slabs and framing, results in outward deflection of columns, and potential overload.” From this expert opinion, the Administration, and the media have aggressively promoted the “pancake theory” Which clams, the floor trusses expanded, which caused the columns to buckle, the joints to break, the floors then compressed upon themselves. However, an objective observer would consider these definite points. A. Never before has any steel frame building come down due to a fire, besides the fact that those at the World Trade Centers burned very shortly and have very cool fires. B. For the world trade centers to react in this way, literally thousands of joints would have had to snap at the precise instant. Remember these buildings were built to withstand these types of things, and were coated with fire protective materials. C. The 'Pancake Theory' would not have been able to come down in such high speeds. D. A pancake collapse would not have had enough latent energy to cause the cement and other substances to crystallize. E. A pancake collapse would not have created the astonishing heat that were recorded and monitored for weeks after the collapse.
this is alot to read, but i think some people in office become corrupt after some time, power can change even the best of people imo, and im reading this book called the greater good, it talks bout corruption in the governemtn, yes it is fiction but i think it parallels with reality in some areas its very interesting... if you like reading check it out....
alright im not flaming, but I am just wondering why you keep posting this stuff. No one here cares. No one is going to take this information and change the government.
a short overview for ya, vice president is killed, he knwos some secret the government tries to cover it up, so they hire assassins to start killing people who could potentially know anything conected to the VP's information...
Its very hard for me to beleive that the man that a majority of Americans elected TWICE could have planned an attack on them knowing it would kill thousands. Including what could have been his father.
well not many people wanted Al Gore to become president, i mean, Bill Clinton (when al gore was vice) bombed Iran where an Asprin factory was being built, and said it was for nuclear weapons. Then, against Kerry, I mean, no one wanted him anyhow. By the way, it's not like it's new, starting in like the last 5 years. There have been many "conspiracies" for like hundreds of years. Ronald Reagan for instance, knew about pearl harbor before it happend, but did not tell anyone so he could have a reason to enter the war. It is hard for people to believe this types of things, which i stated in Part One
first i would like to say, where is the proof? and old debate team rule: EVIDENCE + REASONING = PROOF. you have plenty of reasoning here. more than enough for any conspiracy theory. yet i see no links to external sources, no citation what so ever. i question your facts. THIS IS NOT A FLAME. THIS IS A LIGITIMATE RESPONSE AND CRITIQUE OF THE FIRST POST! the complete theory that ignorant americans are marching twards fascism seems completely half baked. the fact is, america, with the rest of the world, is happily marching LEFT twards COMMUNISM, not twards fascism. the now commonplace ideologies of "everyone is right" and "everyone is a winner" are proof of this. by saying everyone is a winner, we are all the same. the government is seizing more and more power every day. health care, social security, education are all under more and more government control. this is called "big government". this, with the new age ideologies, shows that america, along with the rest of the free world, is headed twards COMMUNISM. THIS IS NOT A FLAME. THIS IS A LIGITIMATE RESPONSE AND CRITIQUE OF THE FIRST POST! it is also obviosly shown by all the leaks from the white house that the government cant keep secrets for long. show me PROOF that the government knew the atrocities were going to happen. THIS IS NOT A FLAME. THIS IS A LIGITIMATE RESPONSE AND CRITIQUE OF THE FIRST POST! this may or may not be a great analysis of the facts. simply because, there are no facts givin by the OP. this thread is meant to sow fear and mistrust of the government. t h e r e i s n o p r o o f given by the OP! how can a word of his be believed with out even ONE source agreeing with him! i am by no means pro government, but i am pro truth. this is a mass of lies woven by someone either too buisy to include proof or too caught up in thier story to think of it. im sorry to sound somewhat harsh here, but a basless assault was just unleashed on the most powerful nation in the world. OP, your arguements "may" be solid, but they are a chunk of solid arguments sitting on nothing but air! in case the argument that my rebuttal has no facts in brought up: critiques are meant to show flaws in the oposing parties arguments, not make my own. all in all, show the people facts before you feed them fallacy!
Ronald Reagan was not presidnet during Pearl Harbor, pear harbor was December 7, 1941, Reagan was president from 1981–1989. That's 40 years off. You either mean that FDR knew about the attack on Pearl Harbor or you're terribly mistaken. American tried to stay out of WWII, the last thing that they wanted was to be involved, thats why Pearl Harbor was such a shock. It can be compared to the safe effect that 9/11 stirred. Again, I would agree, credible proof is more in order then someone's crazy consipiracy theory which are just an excuse to bring down 'the man' and 'big government'.
