A Little More Indepth

Discussion in 'Signatures' started by concept, Jul 28, 2010.

  1. concept

    concept Well-Known Member

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    A Little More Indepth


    [​IMG]

    Read This Before You Post
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    Well I'm starting to get tired of going to each post commenting on people :)
    Now as most of you know clash has his own spot for you to receive his opinion on your signatures.
    He calls it My Professional Opinion and I thought that was a really great idea.

    I give large indepth comments, so my responses may not be as fast as clash. I also don't always have the same amount to say about each signature. I may just direct you to somewhere else with a little advice and tell you to come back when you get some more experience.

    Also my C&C is just based off of my own experience from making art over the years.

    So clash if you don't mind sir I'm going to start my own.

    :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Rules

    1. Please have a signature when you post, unless your responding to my comment. :) I'd like to keep the chit-chat to a minimum and you can always message me if you want to talk.
    2. I do not critique verticle tags as well as horizontals, but I will still give you a good response on it, but you most likely wont have a large response. Just warning you a head of time so you don't feel jipped.
    3. I don't put a rating by default, but if you would like me to let me know. I'll scale you on a 1-10 rating.


    ***** Biggest thing *****
    4. I do get busy, so if needed I will post when I'm going away or will not be on for a while, I would appreciate it if you didn't comment with a signature after I post that I am leaving.
    A. If you do end up posting while I'm away if there aren't to many that follow I may just comment on it.
    B. If a bunch of signatures are left when I'm away I will not leave you critique. :)
    C. I don't leave a lot consistantly for long periods of time, so this isn't going to be a big issue, and in my post I will let you all know.
    D. Other than that you don't really have to worry about it. I'd just appreciate it if I didn't have 20 sigantures to come back to right away. :)
    E. I'll Also re-post when I come back so you'll know when to begin posting again.
    5. Have fun posting on here, I like seeing new things and none of my critique is ment to be harmful. It is only out of my willingness to help to improve your work.


    C&C Examples:

    Graphic:
    Advertising:
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2011
  2. michiganice91

    michiganice91 Well-Known Member

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    well, looks like im posting all my sigs here. Thanks buddy

    I dont think u said anything about these 3 yet.

    these were both for other people in case ur wondering about the weird text.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    thanks again concept. :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2010
  3. concept

    concept Well-Known Member

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    michiganice91

    Any time michiganice :)
    Though you would post 3 signatures, already keeping me busy lol.

    Okay well time to get to your C&C.

    A Little More Indepth

    Signature Reference.

    Signature #1
    [​IMG]

    Signature #2
    [​IMG]

    Signature #3
    [​IMG]

    Good.
    - You've definitely been improving michiganice.
    - Your colors are starting to get complimentary.
    - Your backgrounds and blurs are making more sense.
    - Though your lighting isn't perfect yet :) It's definitely improving as well.

    Bad.
    - Even though I said your colors are getting better your still kind of off. Your making your colors a little bit on the monotone side still. Prime example Signature #2
    - You stated that you made these for other people, either way your text still represents you. Personally I'd rather have my image look as good as I know how to make it at the time whether it's for me or not. Especially when you do work for other people. So that to me isn't an excuse, which is why I have to say :) work on your text still, which you are doing, but if it doesn't look good you don't have to add it. Just remove the text other wise your just hurting the signature.
    - Your still over blurring, and need to practice on depth blurring.
    - I understand by all the signatures that you do, you like boarders. Now that's fine if it's what you like, but for me it's my biggest peeve.

    Boarders.
    Now I will say once again, I hate boarders but some signatures can pull them off. What I'll say next is, you don't need a boarder in every signature, especially when you have the same top-bottom style everytime. If your going to add boarders atleast try changing it up.

    Sometimes one sided boarders look wonder, as well as different colored boarders. This black and white thing needs to stop.

    For example, on Signature #1 these white boarders do not match the context of this signature. They just seem out of place, because you have an awkward color and boarder size on it.

    Now I know you hate listening to me on this michiganice, but seriously on that peice get rid of those boarders.

    Text.
    Text is a very important part of signatures, it's a real make or break addition to a signature. It can easly make a signature look amazing, or make it look so terrible you feel bad by just looking at it.

    Now your text is boarder-line bad, but by looking at it you can tell it had some thought and is on it's way. For instance Signature #3 is your best.... if you got rid of the non-sense above the slayer text, and made the "S" in slayer show over the C4D. Then remake the captain america text, because the colorfulness is to much effect for text. ***Here's a Tip: Keep your text simple and to a solid coloring.***

    Depth Blurring. - About Signature #1
    Depth Blurring - "A type of depth effect, using focus to show object distance."
    - It's Usage: A good way to add deep depth, without highlights and shadows.

    You have a confusion.

    When you use blurring for depth, you either blur what's infront, or whats behind. Don't blur both the front and back, it doesn't make sense.

    ***Here's a Tip: Take 3 different bottles or solid cups, place one directly infront of your eyes, one about 3-5 feet infront of you and one all the way across from you so it's in the distance.

    Now focus on the cup or bottle infront of you, you'll notice your vision automatically focus's on the object infront of you and blurs everything behind it that isn't close to the cup infront of you.

    Now focus on the middle cup, you'll notice that the cup or bottle infront of you is completely blurred, but you can see the cup in the distance.

    Now focus on the cup in the distance, you get the same effect as the middle cup.

    Keep that in mind when blurring, otherwise you trick the human eye in your art and it makes it a visual disruption and is bother-some to you.
    ***

    Your blurring isn't that horrible in this, it's not as much of a eye sore as some can be.

    Now your eyes are more complicated, so you don't really notice slight blurring when your trying to see it visually for yourself. So when your doing your own blurring remember that you can add "VERY LIGHT" blurring to distance objects, or close objects depending on the type of focus your creating.

    Signature #1 - A Quick Review.

    [​IMG]

    Good
    - You're showing good depth in this.
    - The left side + the render/cut-out has a nice layout

    Bad
    - To much text, don't have more than 1 spot for text it's confusing and too over-whelming.
    - Over blurred

    Room for improvement?
    - Definitely, this is worth going back to fix.

    Signature #2 - A Quick Review.

    [​IMG]

    Good
    - The center has a very nice background and effect mixture.

    Bad
    - Very bad text.
    - Very monotoned, with spikes of yellow tones.
    - This a slightly disappointing signature from you.
    - The actual background looks like you didn't know what to do with it, and took a few brush strokes and said "Eh, good enough".

    Room for improvement?
    - Yes, but I wouldn't actually waste the time with this one, go on to a new peice we all have our bad signature days, this one seemed like you were just slacking that day or was having a hard time with idea's.

    Signature #3 - A Quick Review.

    [​IMG]

    Good
    - Best display of lighting I've seen from you yet :)
    - Has great text potential
    - Decent depth

    Bad
    - The C4D on the left doesn't make sense and is actually ruining more than helping because of the whole looking at the city at the very bottom left of it.
    - Coloring needs work.

    Room for improvement?
    - Definitely, this is worth going back to fix.

    My Advice...
    Start messing around in your art program working on different effect styles and ideas don't make a signature, just make a bunch of effects. Remember how to make the ones you like, and start implimenting them into your art.

    Get passed your boarder phase already :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2010
  4. Clash

    Clash The Go-To Guy

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    Great to see someone else stepping up. You're welcome to post comments in my thread as well, it's more of an open floor than a 1 on 1 with my eyes. Maybe merge the 2 into 1 thread?

    Anywho... [​IMG]

    Ignore Ironman, he was a just for fun project. Not to thrilled with the results. I'll revisit that one eventually and post. For now, I'd like your opinion on HomeFront.
     
  5. concept

    concept Well-Known Member

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    clash

    Merge... hmm maybe :) I'll find out if I can even handle doing it first :P
    I do occasionally stop in to your thread, when I have time anyways.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Now for anyone who's going to be reading these, I'd like to point out clash has a signature who's base layout isn't based on effects and usual art work to display a message. It's more an advertisement, I say this because it's a link, and it's got a boarder and negative space to draw your attention to it.

    So this critique is slightly different. :)

    A few quick points as to whats different for those interested.
    -Focal Point
    -Lighting
    -Boarders
    -Color Contrast

    I'm not saying this doesn't take skill and can't be called art, because it still is so please never get that mixed up.

    Now on to clash's request for some C&C :)

    A Little More Indepth

    Signature Reference.

    Signature #1
    [​IMG]

    Good.
    - Good use of color.
    - Didn't use a completely solid white background adding more depth :)

    Bad.
    - I do slightly dislike the homefront placement and design plot.
    - I understand why you highlighted "HOME" in what i think is a bold, but I'm not sure if I like it. The double highlight is sometimes nice, but I think if you left home the same as the rest it would be a more fluent look.
    - Clash is to over powering, yes it's nice to let people know who you are, but I have to pull a mircoscope to see the title of the game over your name.

    - Realistically ad wise and with what I've gather from the background of you signature, you kinda did everything backwards.
    Homefront should be in place of "home is where the war is" with "home is where the war is" underneath it.
    Then CLASH 2.0 in the corner as it is would be fine to be honest.

    Image example:
    [​IMG]
    -Just a quick rough draft to get the point across.
    -To be honest CLASH is still to big, you should downsize it to the same size as the 2.0
    -This is just my opinion on it, I used to do advertising and that's just how I learned it. Well sides putting an auther on there A.K.A forum name in this situation.

    Boarders.
    Boarders... my peeve.

    Though the boarder actually works for this signature, considering it is an eye drawer. But it's not to over powering so there's no real complaint from me. I actually commend you on making full 1px boarder that actually fits into a signature, very good :).

    Text.
    Like I told michiganice, text is an important part in signatures. Especially a signature like yours. Luckily for you :) you have a good sense in text effects, and an understanding in how to place text by one another.

    Though I do have to say you could work on your placement a bit.


    Signature #1 - A Quick Review.

    [​IMG]

    Good
    - Gets the point across.
    - Good use of negative space.

    Bad
    - Text placement needs to be reworked
    - The cut-out could use a light curve layer for better contrast.

    Room for improvement?
    - Yes, but it's still fine the way it is. Realistically you don't have to change anything. Just keep a few things in mind next time your creating one.

    My Advice...
    Your already pretty good with text, but keep going with it. Text is always a hard thing to use. We all keep learning better uses and placement.

    You have a good sense professionalism and definitely know how to keep things clean cut and to the point, while still holding a look of appeal.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2010
  6. Clash

    Clash The Go-To Guy

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    Thanks for the input. You are correct, it's purpose is to spread awareness of the Game HomeFront and give users the option to click it for more info. (that's function) The other purpose is to act as a signature; making it a multipurpose and multi-function design. Something I see lacking in a lot of design in general. (purpose and function)

    Later I may post up a thread explaining the difference between art and design to ease the confusion between the two.

    When it comes down to it, art is expression. Anyone can do it and it's effectiveness is based on how well that expression is received.

    Design is more of a plan to involve a user in some kind of experience to provoke a thought or action. That's where education and know-how come into play.

    --

    As for the signature... Great advice on the text placement. I'll have to further explore that in my next signature.

    Greetz, :)
     
  7. concept

    concept Well-Known Member

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    :) You are an intelligent person clash, I'm glad you see eye to eye with me the majority of the time.

    I find it hard to find another artist/designer/professional that understands these views I do enjoy talking and critiquing with them when we meet :)

    Especially when you occasionally miss a few things in explainations. I think us having a thread together would definitely be nice. Do feel free to stop in here and leave your 2 cents if I seem to have ever missed something in my critique :) and I'll be glad to help you anytime you have a peice in need of critiquing. As I would like to hear your opinions on mine at times. Critiquing your own work is always hard to do, you tend to miss things in the making of it.

    Edit: I'll be sure to post on that thread.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2010
  8. tk_nh1

    tk_nh1 Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    :x
     
  9. Clash

    Clash The Go-To Guy

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    per your recommendations...and then some

    [​IMG]
     
  10. concept

    concept Well-Known Member

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    tk_nh1

    How's it going tk_nk1?

    Before I get started, I'd like to say we have a space setting signature here as you can obviously see. These are usually known for negative space, but there a lot better when you have cloudly effects, and light glows flowing throught the negative space. Thank you tk_nk1 for posting one :)

    A Little More Indepth

    Signature Reference.

    Signature #1
    [​IMG]

    Signature #2
    [​IMG]

    Good.
    - You have a nice expression of depth.
    - Great coloring, I love it in both.
    - Wonderful use of this render, by far the best use I've seen it in.
    - Effects aren't over powering and help explain the scenario you were going for.
    - Great job on lighting.

    Bad.
    - Use of text, and placement.

    Text.
    Signature #1 is ruined thanks to that text for me, some text just doesn't fit in signatures, it's not that it's horrible text, just it doesn't fit the background, the concept of your signature, or the scenario. So now you have a text that's just out of place. It's like a quiet room full of people reading, and a clown comes running through the door and starts yelling and honking it's horn.. that clown is your text in this signature. So either remove it, or replace it with a text that doesn't look as awkward. Text is just like effects and cut-outs, it should "blend" into the signature and fit. It doesn't have to stand out, because it's always something that's noticed as long as you don't hide it extremely well.

    Negative Space.
    Negative Space - "A space thats considered empty. Usually will consist of a solid color."
    - It's Usage: Usually seen in space tags in black coloring. Or in advertisement with bright colors to attract the eye.

    Like I said previously, space tags are notorious for their negative space usage, and you messed up the look a bit with the way you didn't use it in Signature #1.

    You notice the nice cloudy effects and some stars breathing through it. This is lovely and it compliments the shooting star, but the cloudiness right about the tip of the shooting star needs to be removed, or needs to fade off into nothingness.

    Another way to fix it, would add clouds to the bottom right as well. Not as deep as the one in the center but kinda of like the end on the left.

    Image example:
    [​IMG]
    A quick rough draft to get a the point across.
    - Obviously you would have your glow from the star show so it wouldn't be so dark,
    - Also now that I've looked at it. I'd definitely say fading could look better than just empty.

    Anyways the reason I say remove that cloud, is because it made it look more like the star was heading into clouds like on earth you had a ground and a sky type look. Obviously not the exact same just it, from my point of view didn't look correct.

    Either the dusty effect you place cover the sun or you just didn't realize you needed it for that to make sense with the angle your using.

    Signature #1 - A Quick Review.

    [​IMG]

    Good
    - Great coloring
    - Wonderful effects
    - Nice background

    Bad
    - Text
    - Use of negative space

    Commentary
    I'd like to point out that I think you should change the pure white tail to something more colorful, and still bright. Or maybe might it smaller? Like towards the bottom of the signature.

    Just a suggestion :)

    Room for improvement?
    - Definitely, this is worth going back to fix.

    Signature #2 - A Quick Review.

    [​IMG]

    Good
    - Use of render
    - Depth
    - Scenery
    - Light effects

    Bad
    - Light flare
    - To clouding on the right.

    Commentary
    It looks like you were making it seem like someone fell down a hole or something, and she was reaching out to them. but the right side of the inner whole is to dusty. Make just the bottom right corner darker and less dusty.

    The light flare is nice, but that piece of jewelery isn't very noticable. In fact I had started going into a speech about lighting until I was about to state "unless you have a peice of jewlery or metal there" I decided I'd take a closer look.

    Still the light flare looks wierd in the bottom left corner I say get rid of the flare down there, or just reposition it. Honestly if you just got rid of the black dot created in the light flare you'd probably be golden.

    Room for improvement?
    - Yes, but It's up to you if you want to do anything to it. I wouldn't say you had to, these were just things I noticed.


    My Advice...
    Keep practicing your usage of text.

    Your skill and idea's are quite impressive :)
     
  11. concept

    concept Well-Known Member

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    This is just gunna be a quickie :)

    I like it, but I'd say maybe make the text bigger, or add something to that bottom right corner, the emptiness is kinda irritating to look at from a design point of view.

    I know your a fan of animation and I would be to, if it weren't for the loss of quality. So realistically I can't say I like it, but the idea of a more quality look, is more my idea of good because I'd be more drawn to something that looks profession and clean cut, than something thats got some movement and is low in quality.
     
  12. Amergin

    Amergin Well-Known Member

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    First, just want to thank you concept. I notice a lot of responses on many of the bigger graphics sites seem to be devolving to "good job, i like it, kiu <random emoticon>" or, at best a quick "work on depth, looks good though, kiu". I'm starting to do quick one-line comments, too, but that's due to commenting on my phone while I'm at work (which is why I don't comment often).

    But in depth criticism and analysis is extremely helpful, and you provide some of the best analysis I've seen. Thanks. :)

    And really quick:

    I don't know if you meant to or not, but you sound a tad condescending towards art vs. design (like art is "easier"). While I agree art is expression and theoretically anyone can do it, you still have certain aesthetic qualities, traits and compositions that look good. You still need education to be a decent artist, just like you need education to be a decent designer. They're just two paths that happen to use many of the same tools. :)
    ---------------------------------------------------

    Okay, let me go ahead and post some sigs for critique. I've posted these before and and I think Clash gave his thoughts on two of them (thanks for that, Clash), but I figured the more opinions, the merrier.

    Go Away
    [​IMG]

    Banal
    [​IMG]

    My Thoughts on Censorship
    [​IMG]

    Also, it's "border". ;)
     
  13. Clash

    Clash The Go-To Guy

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    That's a bit over analyzed.

    When you think art, you think Picaso, Rembrant, Pollok?, Okeif...etc...

    When you think designer you think Guy you owe money to for making your website.

    Design is less about self expression and more about strategy. (where education comes in) Proper studies in communications, design, psychology, typography, branding, cooperate structures, and multi-media are required to be an effective designer. Your design fails if 1. it can't explain itsself or 2. you can't explain it. (BSing it isn't explaining it)

    Art...yes, anyone can do it. And yes that means it requires less skill. But at the same time, that depends on how you rate art...based on it's photo-realism or based on how it gets across the expression of the artist.

    I have a degree in both art and design and soon law. My opinion is coming from both experience and education. I'm not looking down on artists.
     
  14. Kay87

    Kay87 Well-Known Member

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    hold breath, iv slipped far, not that i even got far to begin with, but please take a look at my one

    [​IMG]

    PS: i can handle you being brutal honest
     
  15. michiganice91

    michiganice91 Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     

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